Boards›Gameplay

League of Marksmen

vgamedude·3/6/2020, 9:11:40 AM·1 votes·4,059 views
  • Marksmen in practically every league game for 10 years.
  • Only static role/class combo in the game.
  • apart of every single meta.
  • in LCK highest damage at 15 minutes is an ADC player (late game scaling too btw lul)
  • most have the easiest form of damage as their main source (auto attacks)
  • entire champions and types are centered around them. Supports supporting them assassins assassinating them.
  • if tanks get picked in 1/3 games the community whines about "league of tanks" yet marksmen are in every game no one says "league of marksmen"
  • champions consist of poke champions that can outpoke artillery mages while having more reliable fall back damage, sustain and mobility (see ezreal vs xerath for instance)
  • can get sustain while barely sacrificing any damage or even none with items like BT or bork, can also easily get legend bloodline for free lifesteal
  • no one allowed in bot lane "carry" role yet marksmen can be flexed elsewhere. Like lucian, vayne, tristana, and in pro kalista has been being flexed into solo lanes as well
  • community will still cry about "adc in 2kxx lul" and meme even though no other class in the entire game has been required in team comps for as long as they have, it isn't even remotely close.
  • community says games are too quick and average game time is so short yet marksmen are still required while simultaneously the consensus is seemingly "they are weak early but scale" funny how that works
  • riot enforces the same exact team setup and lane assignments every single game with bot lane duo with a marksmen. Destroys game variety and diversity

game will never be balanced gg.

Here is the lck game today I was watching by the way. How fun. https://imgur.com/a/Dr0YEPv

25 Comments

LanceTheJungler3/6/2020, 9:21:57 AM6 votes

The "marksmen are a scaling class" line is outdated. Most marksmen are on par with other classes with just a BF sword.

Ragnaveil3/6/2020, 7:27:06 PM3 votes

But hey, lets not rework crit amiright?

Thefrostyviking3/6/2020, 10:32:33 AM2 votes

Oh dear god this mess again? x)

First lets talk about the other classes, people do not complain about assassins randomly because when they are weak they are nonexistent but when they are strong they are annihilating champions like Darius in a single full rotation or close to it anyway which is absurd and a absolutely valid cause to complain.

None except the strongest tanks go safe when assassins are strong.

..............

As for the tanks, i cant speak nor write for others but i certainly complain when i see a tank roll in with 350+ armor at 3 items but also 3000 health and enough damage to kill most champions in the game with a nonstop rotation of skills.

He takes no damage, has a shitload of effective health and as a tank they also tend to have abilities with massive impact in a teamfight.......when such characters get strong its a fucking giant pain in the ass.......and Ornn is not even the first time something like this has happened, and i will keep complaining every time it does.

Another funny thing about this is that marksmen are necessary to deal with tanks, because melee get stunlocked to oblivion and are thus unreliable for DPS while too much magic based damage results in being stonewalled by MR.

You need a mix of both AP and AD so that the tank cant perfectly counterbuild, and you need the sources to be ranged.,......so as long as a tank remains strong marksmen will always be mandatory to deal with that unless a mage or some melee becomes hilariously overpowered like say rework Malzahar.

...........................

The flex picking? It happens toplane because a bunch of melee are for some reason designed to kinda autowin melee against melee without that trait but also autolose against ranged.

Midlane? Midlane mages are piss weak early and cant put out the pressure that say a support does which naturally makes a marksman pretty safe there until the first back at the very least depending on the mage..,.,..one that is weaker than usual early like Aurelion might need a full 2 items+ to properly solokill with ease.

Why is this? Because Riot does not want mages to bully assassins out of lane......but majority of assassins are useless in coordinated play so you wont see them there unless overpowered.

As a result some marksmen like Ezreal can endure lane against the likes of Xerath and come out just fine.

.................................

Special note for Kalista being a CT masterpiece that Riot does not care to fix.

.........................................................

Supports exist because marksmen on their own are generally shit and while exceptions do exist majority of them can absolutely not handle a sololane against a meta opponent. '

If you see an Ashe beating a Syndra solo then the problem is not marksmen being strong.......hells even the strong ones cant survive well at all post level 6 against many things.

Does not matter if the lucian/trist can pop someone in 2 seconds if the attacker can do it in less than 1 and this is common enough.

..................................

Lifesteal is an issue? I would agree if item 3075 did not mitigate or entirely remove it or if most damage based champions post 1 item+boots could not annihilate any ADC in a single rotation.

But it does, and they can.

.............................

Reason only marksmen are viable in the bot carry role? Melee get shit on by the supports and you dont want 2 magic based carries or the enemy tank is a free win, hells even just a decent frontliner even if not a tank becomes a giant issue as no one can kill him.

...........................

And done!

IF you want an example of why people&pros say that midlane&jungle are the strongest roles go look at the game between G2 and OG.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cl2ydNq0lZ4

OG botlane got fed but it did not matter at all because g2 midlane was also fed and thus OG botlane was useless pretty much the entire game.,,,,why did g2 midlane get fed? Because of the jungle fights.

MLDzXnRRR3/6/2020, 8:04:01 PM2 votes

Dude, they can't balance TFT, but you expect balanced SR - this won't happen. Ranged DPS is totally the most optimal playstyle - if marksmen are balanced or underpowered early game, they will be not popular, because games are too short after RIOT decided that 40+ minutes of pro games are too much - regular SR game is decided around 12-15 minutes in soloQ (outside of lowest tiers of ranked). Balancing marksmen and no skill expression champions like Garen/Jax etc would require a better balance team and probably many reworks (including of items - crit being too good since forever).

vgamedude3/6/2020, 10:43:53 AM1 votes

Same series game 3, really fun watching varus outdamage a fed vel koz playing out of his mind this much!

https://imgur.com/a/5s7gsYy

vgamedude3/6/2020, 3:38:34 PM1 votes

As an example. Look at gol.gg. I chose top leagues only (lck,lcs etc.), bot lane picks.

  • S4: Highest non marksmen pick was Urgot at 2. Highest marksmen was lucian at 363.
  • S5: Highest non marksmen pick was Jayce at 1. Highest marksmen pick was Sivir at 721.
  • S6: Highest non marksmen pick was Urgot at 2. Highest marksmen pick was lucian at 811.
  • S7: Highest non marksmen pick was Ziggs at 54. Highest marksmen was Varus at 912.
  • S8: Highest non marksmen pick was swain at 158. Highest marksmen 649. (this was when riot wanted more diversity bot and still its so little, dont worry marksmen players they nerfed things right back after this)
  • S9: Highest non marksmen pick was sona at 83. Highest marksmen pick was Kai Sa at 771.
  • S10: Highest non marksmen Tahm Kench at 9. Highest Marksmen Miss Fortune at 150.

Where is all this diversity? Where are the op mages? Where is this meta disruptor Ziggs? Oh yeah, 54 picks. The fact that SO many league players cite this muhhhhh adc in 2kxx meme and do so completely unironically while not even spending the two seconds to look at this kind of stuff is VERY telling.

EDIT: I just manually went through s4-s10 (doesnt go further back) and added all the marksmen and non marksmen picks together:

As of 3/6/2020 according to gol.gg filtered by only top leagues (lck,lcs,lec etc.) S4-S10 only data available.

Bot lane marksmen prevalance vs. non marksmen:

S10: Marksmen picks - 503 - non marksmen picks - 27 S9: Marksmen picks - 3878 - non marksmen picks - 330 S8: Marksmen picks - 3807 - non marksmen picks - 601 S7: Marksmen picks - 5328 - non marksmen picks - 112 S6: Marksmen picks - 3972 - non marksmen picks - 2 S5: Marksmen picks - 3383 - non marksmen picks - 79 S4: Marksmen picks - 1232 - non marksmen picks - 4

Total marksmen picks - 22,103 ---- Non marskmen picks - 1,155

Percentage non marksmen: 5.2255

Then ranked non professional play:

Plat + bot non marksmen pick rates (league of graphs, op.gg, u.gg, champion.gg)

League of Graphs: 3 percent op.gg: 6.4 percent u.gg: 1.8 percent champion.gg: 3.99 percent

average: 3.8

Daddy Ants3/6/2020, 7:32:51 PM1 votes

Boy I can't wait for the boards closure.

3 days to go,

vgamedude3/7/2020, 9:23:00 AM1 votes

For anyone interested (though I doubt anyone is still reading this thread) I was bored and did this for half an hour or so. Maybe some minor mistakes as I was going down a list inputting numbers into a calculator.

As of 3/6/2020 according to gol.gg filtered by only top leagues (lck,lcs,lec etc.) S4-S10 only data available.

Bot lane marksmen prevalance vs. non marksmen:

S10: Marksmen picks - 503 - non marksmen picks - 27 S9: Marksmen picks - 3878 - non marksmen picks - 330 S8: Marksmen picks - 3807 - non marksmen picks - 601 S7: Marksmen picks - 5328 - non marksmen picks - 112 S6: Marksmen picks - 3972 - non marksmen picks - 2 S5: Marksmen picks - 3383 - non marksmen picks - 79 S4: Marksmen picks - 1232 - non marksmen picks - 4

Total marksmen picks - 22,103 ---- Non marskmen picks - 1,155

Percentage non marksmen: 5.2255

Plat + bot non marksmen pick rates (league of graphs, op.gg, u.gg, champion.gg)

League of Graphs: 3 percent op.gg: 6.4 percent u.gg: 1.8 percent champion.gg: 3.99 percent

average: 3.8

Plat + percentage marksmen picks in other roles (same sites):

League of Graphs- Top lane: 3.8 Mid Lane: 0.8 Jungle: 9.1 Support: 17.9

Op.gg- Top Lane: 7.72 Mid Lane: 2.72 Jungle: 9 Support: 19.56

U.gg- Top Lane: 4.3 Mid Lane: 2.4 Jungle: 8.5 Support: 14.7

Champion.gg- Top Lane: 2.39 Mid Lane: .44 Jungle: 4.62 Support: 11.02

Overall- Top lane: 4.55 Mid Lane: 1.59 Jungle: 7.8 Support: 15.79 Average of these: 7.43

Marksmen picks in other roles s4-s10 top leagues only gol.gg (jayce and kayle not counted as marksmen)

Mid Lane: Non Marksmen - 21,458 Marksmen - 1,903 - 8.87 Percent marksmen Top lane: Non Marksmen - 23,210 Marksmen - 190 - .82 percent marksmen Jungle: Non Marksmen - 21,556 Marksmen - 1,825 - 8.47 percent marksmen Support: Non Marksmen - 23,260 Marksmen - 136 - .58 percent marksmen

Average marksmen - 4.68

TLDR: While having one role practically entirely to themselves marksmen can also flex to other roles, every other role with around or more than the prevalence that every other champ in the game can "invade" "theirs". This is also while every other role has to share "their" role with numerous other class types and champions.

Also keep in mind there are 21 Marksmen champions in this game according to league of legends fandom, while there are 148 champions in the game. (14.19 percent)

Lol downvoting pure facts. Stay classy boards.