"Learn to cs and you'll climb" is a bad meme. If you want to climb learn wave manipulation.

Rock MD·2/9/2019, 2:55:34 AM·57 votes·33,336 views

Over time the idea that you could cs well and you'll climb is one of the most oversaturated pieces of advice that bargain bin coaching has given us. The problem was that it created two problems. The first is that now, everyone just cses well. Back in s3 when I started, Bronze 5 players averaged 2-3 cs a minute. Now? I see Bronze games where the players that aren't getting dumpstered are getting 6-7+. The other problem is that nobody knows what to do with it. It's great if you're getting ahead of your opponent, but if you're not playing a champion that can destroy the enemy with AoE, you're not gonna go far with a lead.

That's why I say learn good wave manipulation. Wave manipulation is a huge part of this game and it goes almost entirely under-appreciated for what it does. With csing, the best thing you're hoping for is that your team doesn't feed while you get to the point you can pop off.

With good wave knowledge, you can create pressure, and that allows you to -Force your opponent to lose cs and xp and/or be a free kill for you -Force your opponent to stay instead of roaming on your lanes -Force the jungler to camp your lane instead of do anything else productive (if he can't kill you, but your jungler gets a single kill, you've already made a net positive) -Allow your jungler to counterjungle because you can back him up -Protect your jungler from invades -Take dragons while nobody is looking -Get vision while your opponent is under tower -Pick up free kills because you don't have to sit in lane as often

Essentially, you can't stop your lanes from feeding their lane opponent in a 1v1 setting, but through pressure you can remove or diminish their chances of dying to external factors significantly.

It's OP. If you want to get started here are some easy tips. -The best waves to back before are cannon minions. They're harder to kill so even if your opponent pushes hard and you lose the cannon you'll get most of the remaining wave. On non-cannon waves you'll miss 4-5 minions if it gets shoved to tower. -These are also the best waves to roam during, for the same reason. -Use the regular waves to disappear from lane and get vision before the cannons come. You can also play mindgames and roam during that time but it's very risky -The three types of lane positions are slow push, hard push, and freeze. You want to use these to deny as much cs as you can. -Freezes deny enemies gold the best when you know they're coming back to lane and you either can't shove into tower hard enough or when you can't get anything out of it (likely to get ganked and die). They're also good for staying safe from ganks. -Hard pushes work best when you can shove into tower to deny minions. These are good for when your opponent is roaming and you cannot follow them (4 gank bot but your jungler is top). Take a plate if you can during this time. -Slow pushes are when you have 1 more minion than the enemy. During this time another wave will come and since their minions will have done substantially less damage you can have 10+ minions pushed into their tower at once. -Slow pushing this way often gets you a reset (lane goes back to the middle) or reverse push (their minions come to tower just as yours are dying, giving you 5-6 healthy minions). Slow push into reverse is often one of the best ways to play against assassin lanes. -These basics are super important for getting kills and snowballing in low elo, and you play around the enemy trying to use them for outplays in high elo.

58 Comments

Dedenne2/9/2019, 7:01:14 AM36 votes

If u wanna climb, visit a climbingwall or whatever they are called. Learning wavemanipulation (fck spelling) will only help ur surfer skills at most

PrismalDawn2/9/2019, 3:04:10 AM11 votes

If you learn to CS than you learn to manipulate the wave in the process.

Ralanr2/9/2019, 3:29:47 AM5 votes

I still don’t know how to freeze lane properly, it’s my biggest weakness top.

Reaper Soraka2/10/2019, 6:35:27 PM5 votes

If you want to climb, ward. (Mine are bouquets of roses!) If you want to climb, watch the minimap. (box with icons in it, bottom right is the correct place to have it, but you can swap it to left) If you want to climb, learn to cs. (idk what that stands for. #supportlife ) If you want to climb, learn to control the minion wave. (freeze near your tower if they're overly aggressive, especially with a good ganking jungle) If you want to climb, learn to position yourself in lane. (Q'ing them in the face until a tower falls) If you want to climb, learn to position yourself in teamfights. (i try to bait too much, but it works well in my current elo) If you want to climb, learn a single role thoroughly. ( I press w a lot) If you want to climb, learn the capabilities of all roles. (ex: top controlling RH, bot controlling drag) If you want to climb, learn the capabilities of all champions. (ex: Nidalee can jump over many walls without landing a spear/trap!)

There's so many things people can work on, but so many things they don't really need to learn more on. What's your weakness? I suck at everything equally I think.

ModKnightsKemplar2/10/2019, 5:14:04 PM4 votes

Honestly, this was excellent advice last year, but I'm not even sure there is much wave manipulation with the current minions. Yeah, a good freeze is still possible, but late game strats like super waves and the like have been dead for some time.

The minion waves seem to be re-designed to avoid pushing unless you are actively pushing them. I can't remember a timestamp, but if you watch last week's "The Dive" with special guest Meteos, he brings this up at some point and says he feels that most pros don't actually know what good wave mechanics are with the new minions. If there are any killer awesome strats possible with wave manipulation, they really haven't emerged yet.

ModCaliCoastReplay2/10/2019, 2:50:45 AM3 votes

Game is about waves, lanes, objectives, not champion fights. 100%. The champion fights only get you to the objectives.

Most players do not understand this, particularly in low ELO.

DarwinTheory2/9/2019, 1:41:06 PM3 votes

CS is irrelevant.

I've laned Vs a klepto keennen. CS was utterly irrelevant to him

Lane bullies burst you regardless at level 3.

Sustain and tp combos are almost impossible to beat.

By 10 mins carry champs hit their powerspikes.

Meanwhile Meddler does cocaine in RIOT HQs lavatories all day and gets a paycheck for it.

When most of LOL's playerbase hit 18+ and start working they'll realise LOL is actually a game simulator for real life:

And the moral?

Work your ass off and get shit on none the less. None of your effort matters.

Javi Is Here2/9/2019, 3:16:04 AM3 votes

I think I gained IQ

MorgManBasher2/9/2019, 5:20:32 AM2 votes

Didn't bother to read the post, but if you don't think perfect CS is a factor to climbing you are drunk. I agree wave manipulation is important but so is learning to CS and if you can't CS properly you need to learn to or you are putting yourself massively behind.

If you think low ELO can farm, you obviously haven't played with my friends who struggle to hit 100 CS by 20 minutes.

Fakernoticemepls2/12/2019, 4:09:28 PM2 votes

wave manipulation LOL fucking idiot Learn to coinflip better, if you flip on the right side you win, if not you lose. That is league of legends.

UlyssesISR2/13/2019, 12:55:16 AM2 votes

Or just improve/find a better team and not waste time reading "101 ways to climb ranked ladder" threads.

GigglesO2/9/2019, 4:28:58 PM2 votes

More like play a low cd, high mana, spam able champ and just instantly clear all waves.

Sevens Sin2/9/2019, 4:24:54 PM2 votes

I was playing Leona, and I lost a game almost purely because my adc would perma push, as a DRAVEN. we couldn't fight the enemy at all because we were constantly under their turret, and then we got ganked. I tried telling him to stop but he ended up flaming me for "not helping push to reset" lmao. It's like he didn't even know what the terms meant. :(

Wendy MarveI2/10/2019, 9:40:27 PM2 votes

If you hold a freeze but miss every last hit, this is still a problem. A great skill to have is being able to fast push a wave while still getting CS. It's one thing to do it while slow pushing and freezing, but if you're getting every CS while trying to shove lane under enemy tower as quickly as possible, that takes even more practice than just sitting around with 4 caster minions, yawning sleepily.

ExxonV2/10/2019, 5:31:47 AM2 votes

Shut up, I know how you win games. You push the wave to turr till someone ganks your lane and kills you, then reset and repeat. Do this until either you hit their nexus or they hit yours. Thats how you play Macro level 9001.

Kazekiba2/11/2019, 11:03:15 PM1 votes

Elo bless you Doc Rock, M.D. (Minion Doctor?)

GripaAviara2/13/2019, 1:20:22 AM1 votes

While I agree, wave manipulation does not save you from 6/0 katarina in under 10 minutes or from a jungler that decides to ruin you hard worked freeze because he failed a gank and said : hey, let me at least take your lane

Deliberate Inter2/13/2019, 9:59:03 AM1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rock MD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=juUu6IXN,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-02-09T02:55:34.192+0000)

Over time the idea that you could cs well and you'll climb is one of the most oversaturated pieces of advice that bargain bin coaching has given us. The problem was that it created two problems. The first is that now, everyone just cses well. Back in s3 when I started, Bronze 5 players averaged 2-3 cs a minute. Now? I see Bronze games where the players that aren't getting dumpstered are getting 6-7+. The other problem is that nobody knows what to do with it. It's great if you're getting ahead of your opponent, but if you're not playing a champion that can destroy the enemy with AoE, you're not gonna go far with a lead.

That's why I say learn good wave manipulation. Wave manipulation is a huge part of this game and it goes almost entirely under-appreciated for what it does. With csing, the best thing you're hoping for is that your team doesn't feed while you get to the point you can pop off.

With good wave knowledge, you can create pressure, and that allows you to -Force your opponent to lose cs and xp and/or be a free kill for you -Force your opponent to stay instead of roaming on your lanes -Force the jungler to camp your lane instead of do anything else productive (if he can't kill you, but your jungler gets a single kill, you've already made a net positive) -Allow your jungler to counterjungle because you can back him up -Protect your jungler from invades -Take dragons while nobody is looking -Get vision while your opponent is under tower -Pick up free kills because you don't have to sit in lane as often

Essentially, you can't stop your lanes from feeding their lane opponent in a 1v1 setting, but through pressure you can remove or diminish their chances of dying to external factors significantly.

It's OP. If you want to get started here are some easy tips. -The best waves to back before are cannon minions. They're harder to kill so even if your opponent pushes hard and you lose the cannon you'll get most of the remaining wave. On non-cannon waves you'll miss 4-5 minions if it gets shoved to tower. -These are also the best waves to roam during, for the same reason. -Use the regular waves to disappear from lane and get vision before the cannons come. You can also play mindgames and roam during that time but it's very risky -The three types of lane positions are slow push, hard push, and freeze. You want to use these to deny as much cs as you can. -Freezes deny enemies gold the best when you know they're coming back to lane and you either can't shove into tower hard enough or when you can't get anything out of it (likely to get ganked and die). They're also good for staying safe from ganks. -Hard pushes work best when you can shove into tower to deny minions. These are good for when your opponent is roaming and you cannot follow them (4 gank bot but your jungler is top). Take a plate if you can during this time. -Slow pushes are when you have 1 more minion than the enemy. During this time another wave will come and since their minions will have done substantially less damage you can have 10+ minions pushed into their tower at once. -Slow pushing this way often gets you a reset (lane goes back to the middle) or reverse push (their minions come to tower just as yours are dying, giving you 5-6 healthy minions). Slow push into reverse is often one of the best ways to play against assassin lanes. -These basics are super important for getting kills and snowballing in low elo, and you play around the enemy trying to use them for outplays in high elo.

BZZZT wrong, csing is important

Moonscourge2/13/2019, 10:20:27 AM1 votes

Why not both?

CSing is the easiest and most effective thing to learn, of course it is great advice.

DeathBurst2/13/2019, 12:38:37 PM1 votes

Depends climb up to what point. No one ever claimed you could reach Diamond just with good CS. But reaching low Silver just with good CS is real. (And friendly reminder that even just low Silver is already better than ~35% of the player base.)

If you start going into proper wave manipulation, not just simply CS'ing, you can probably reach low Gold.

Ungrateful Thug2/9/2019, 7:36:28 AM1 votes

Good post. I knew some of this, but it also contained some other bits that I wasn't aware of. Always looking to improve my own play with these nuggets of info. Thanks!

Hensetsu2/9/2019, 8:50:12 AM1 votes

Wave manipulation is a part of learning how to farm optimally.

That said, you still get an upvote my man. I'm sure there are plenty of people who don't know this stuff!

Douglas Funnie2/9/2019, 9:17:34 AM1 votes

Game is not hard to understand, folks. Just build damage, click on an enemy first, one shot him, and push the lane. It's that simple.

Worst Kench NA2/9/2019, 10:13:09 AM1 votes

I had been playing Ziggs support for almost my entire time playing him, and decided to try him out in his main role. My friend taught me how to freeze mid lane so that caster minions would never really ever hit my towers in laning phase, and doing that basically assured that my tower took no damage at all while I was easily able to take down theirs, despite struggling with CS. I got back to back S's in the two Ziggs mid games I played, and sure, while I know how to play him mechanically, I ended up coping with solo laning much better than I thought I would, and even had better games than when I played him support.

I always took "just learn how to CS" as half-hearted advice because most people see that, shove waves all the time and leave themselves exposed to ganks, when it's not just that simple. I'd bet that learning how to freeze could help an incredible amount in helping people get to even gold elo.

Theorchero2/9/2019, 1:37:25 PM1 votes

Good points, but I still see players average 6 cspm even on farming champs, which imo is just complete ass.

I always encourage low elo players to focus more on getting 80 cs by 10 minutes consistently in custom games while having a bot in their lane.

After that, depending on the lane I go into farming/trading patterns, warding placement, and then wave manipulation. Wave manipulation is a hard skill to learn when you don't have very good fundamentals. But it is immeasurably valuable.

Quil Evrything2/9/2019, 5:28:18 PM1 votes

at bronze, whats more imporant is "LEARN HOW TO NOT DIE".

Bears Dont Care2/10/2019, 2:57:28 AM1 votes

One way you can practice freezing a lane or breaking a frozen lane can be done in training mode. Top lane naturally pushes towards blue. Bot lane naturally pushes red. Mid lane alternates iirc.

As such, you can practice freezing a lane by going to training mode and properly last hitting and learning how to tank the wave, when, and where. Mid lane is good for just learning how to manipulate the waves either way.

Trias0002/10/2019, 3:34:42 AM1 votes

I recommend Skill Capped Challenger LoL Guides channel on Youtube for learning wave manipulation

Papdi12/10/2019, 4:12:22 AM1 votes

Or play jungle. Most independent role so you can carry those morons aka teamnates to victory

Psyrix2/10/2019, 4:48:48 PM1 votes

Deserves so many upvotes

Serika Zero2/10/2019, 5:08:36 PM1 votes

i was expecting this to be a joke about the no farm strategy of zillean top with klepto and spellthief

farming = gold gold = items more items = you are more likely to win fights win fights = more likely to destroy turrets

which is why: "learn to farm" is the first step. Wave manipulation can put the enemy laner behind, but not always and that's about it. Instead of wave manipulation, after farming: trading, combos and harass/zoning. Is usually the next step

Syrile2/10/2019, 6:11:30 PM1 votes

Good tips. Proper wave manipulation requires good CS ability however. Otherwise you are going to mess this up a lot. Or just do all of nothing with the attempt to gain a lead.

Bob the Toastr2/11/2019, 12:25:40 AM1 votes

To be fair, as important as it is to manipulate the waves, farming is important too. I think like somewhere between 15 and 20 cs is equal to a kill in gold value

WAZZZUP5002/11/2019, 2:08:13 PM1 votes

I like this post. You actually told us how the things are useful, and gave us abetter understanding of them rather than just saying "do this or ur bad ecksdee"