@RiotReportoir Can we talk about 6 item hypertanks?

I'm having a lot of trouble theorycrafting out where 6 item tanks are after these changes in terms of pure tanky survivability, but I'm intuitively concerned. Can you, or someone involved in the big juggernaut patch please look over my thoughts, and correct any confusion or wrong assumptions? I feel like there is a ton of stuff that I'm missing, and even my best guesses seem intuitively wrong in some cases. Stacking scalings on top of each other in league is an enormously hard task, and I could use some help. There are also a ton of masteries and obscure interactions that I can't clearly see the effect of.

Randuins: -100 hp - 10 armor. -600 effective health at 5000 hp vs physical. +10% reduction on crits. Stack with Reinforced armor to grant 400-40=360-36=324 damage received =76 reduced damage assuming a 400 damage crit auto. After ~8-9 crit auto attacks from an ADC, new randuins is better. ~3000 damage received in both cases, ignoring non-crits. Factoring in non-crits feels like it makes new Randuin's quite a bit worse.

Thornmail: Hoo boy... This one's a headache. If I'm reading right, you can get ~200 bonus armor lategame, and deal 100 extra reflection damage. Carries autoing you would get reflected for a ton more than this when they crit before the changes, but now it's more normalized, where a reflect deals a much more consistent value, regardless of the attacker's damage. Thornmail reflects less to lategame ADCs, but reflects much more to low damage incoming autos, making it better at small scraps, and significant against on-hit enemies (teemo, fizz, devour bruisers) and mages/supports who weave autos between casts. I'm concerned about it being harder to tank lategame ADCs with these combined changes of thorn/randuin

Considering that this patch is about reinforcing niche uniqueness, I'm appalled to see warmogs grant an effect so similar to Garen's passive Garen can build the item to turn himself up to 11, but it's really not necessary, and takes extra time to kick in. It's not as good as Garen's passive lategame by half, but I don't know if the dilution of his theme is justified.

Dead Man's Plate/Righteous Glory: I'm concerned about the addition of mobility-enhancing tank items to the meta. If Juggernauts like Garen get too strong this patch, the stated solution is to remove some of his champion specific mobility. This concerns me because it can force him to find his mobility in items like these, instead of having the freedom to build specifically tank resistances. These items are restrictive replacements for Garen's tenacity, and movement-speed duration that have already been taken out, and the thought of further reducing his mobility if he seems 'strong' makes me shiver. I'll copy a portion of a reply that I made to another Garen thread where you were involved:

> I'm cringing to see that you're removing his fulltank W hyperscaling, because that was THE endgame fantasy for me as a Garen player. I like to play champions who can tank like gods, and go anywhere on the map with semi-impunity. Udyr was my go-to in season 3, and if I were better at Mundo, and could get him out of a weak lane earlygame, I'd love him too, but Garen is my go-to. Playing all of these characters as hypertanks, I didn't mind lacking damage, because I was having too much fun being in the enemy's face. > > In addition to losing some hypertank, your go-to nerfspot is his mobility, after he already lost his tenacity, and Q speed duration. I'm concerned about being able to play Garen at all in the future. The direction of changes dictate that in the lategame I have to stay close enough to my team that they can bail me out of a bad situation, and rely on teamfight items like Dead Man's Plate and Sterak's Gage to bruise and dive, instead of being able to struggle away on my own while my team secures an objective. > > Overall, I adore Garen as my go-to splitpushing hypertank, who draws the enemy team to me, while my team can secure an objective, and I feel like you have a totally different vision for him as a damage threat juggernaught with high, but limited tankiness, and reduced mobility/escape.