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Your thoughts on Executes in League?

Jaspers·1/3/2019, 11:04:46 AM·11 votes·11,560 views

"Basically, if you're ever below 15%, just leave the fight. Treat that as your new zero."

This was said by Meddler in the 2017 stream for Rune Reforged about a experimental rune called 'Reap', which just killed someone because they were below 15% HP. Wrekz talks about how it later became Predator. youtu.be/0xR_w2Avw-o?t=300

Pyke's Ult is Reap just in a different form and while fun for those that have it, changed the way botlane (and the game in general really) is played when you face Pyke, as it's surely safer to just back before level 6 if you are lowish HP than risk him leveling and getting 2 easy kills because you are playing Ashe with no boots and your flash is down. Pyke's ult also does 25% of nearly all champs HP at level 6, scales with level not points on R so if he is ahead in just 1 level it's worse. Yet it's better early now than late, it's nowhere near what it once was (first launch version at level 15 he did do 35% of Caitlyn's base HP with just the base damage, Darius needed 180 bAD plus 5 stacks to match Pyke's launch values at level 15).

This is the same in my view as Urgot's Ult, as I don't feel right fighting him at level 6 because to me I have max 25% less HP than I actually have.

I know what your first thought is "just dodge it", thanks for the advice. That doesn't change how I feel about how these executes affects my gameplay which in general is overly cautious compared to others.

I only have this issue with their executes ults. With other executes I'm fine, Garen, Veigar and Evelynn's are magic damage so you can build MR, Garen and Veigar's are single point and click but don't reset. Evelynn's only enhances the damage and isn't % missing HP so really only good on squishies. Cho has a really short range and really needs stacks to make it really good. Rek'Sai has enough issues without having to first mark an enemy, point and clicking them only for them to dodge it anyway. Darius needs to stack 5 times for it to even reach the same level as Pyke's, if you are in the fight for that long against Darius well, it's your own fault.

In the end, all I want from an execute is a matter of fairness on how I as an opposing player I counter them outside of just dodge it or leave because I'm not buying a Zhonyas on Jinx any time soon. Their executes are designed to ignore basic survival gameplay, you can shield every execute listed above but Pyke's and Urgot's, and unless you are GP or Trynd, you are dead to Urgot's.

What are your thoughts on executes in the game?

TL/DR: Pyke and Urgot's executes change the way you play in lane more than anyone else's and need to be toned down, there needs to be more obvious counters to them than just 'leave'.

38 Comments

MissMikasa1/3/2019, 7:18:11 PM5 votes

Agreed.

Pyke's is on a whole other level of stupid than the rest of them.

He should have never been created.

Cats Are Food1/3/2019, 11:13:25 AM3 votes

Executes have always been a pisspoor concept that are just there because the designer ran out of ideas on the champion. It even applies to Darius.

By having someone with an execute in your game, your effective pool of health, playstyle, and low-health gameplay is gone. Completely. There are no low-health efforts. Last Stand is thrown in the trash. You never can fully capitalize on Lissandra's ult. Etc

Rabbi Shekelberg1/3/2019, 8:56:13 PM3 votes

Execute abilities as in bonus damage scaling on the target's missing health? or increasing its own damage by a percentage against targets with low health? literal instant execution?

GOOD DESIGN: Garen does it the best, and is the only one. A single target, melee range that properly scales on missing health with laughable base damage, yet still can be countered via MR and last second shield/heal(unless you are the villain).

Jhin Ult: Still isn't technically an execute, but its fine because despite it's long range, it's still a single target skillshot. Passive: Fine but can be problematic because of item 3031 's passive.

RekSai : the damage is an unfunny joke if it used on a non low health enemy, even on low without pen. still dodgeable, but have to be marked first.

Urgot : Fine, a predictable skillshot that has low base damage that doesn't do anything impressive on its own unless the target is below an acceptable threshold.

ACCEPTABLE DESIGN:

Evelynn 's is fine, it is increases its own damage if below a threshold, aoe but still melee, and deals magic, not true.

Jinx Global aoe skillshot that also does less at point blank. it is fine but a bit too high base damage

Zed Damage is based completely around damage dealt during a 3 second period, takes landing a skillshot too. it's fine even if it is an untargetable point and click gap closer that can be used to outplay. the problem is that Zed has too much damage WITHOUT using it, and combined it can be really too much.

PROBLEMATIC: Veigar does it bad, because it isn't really an execute. His ult is a nuke that will deal half your health when you're at max hp anyway. the bonus damage isn't even scaled on the target's missing health, but rather with it. it ensures you won't survive it, and the current pen options ensures building MR is futile.

Chogath : A better version of Garen's ULT that does a flat amount of true damage like Darius's ult but has a scaling. Darius is where it is really problematic: it is still melee like Garen's, but deals true damage. the problem is that it is resettable which leads to anti fun chain executions that can win the teamfight alone. Luckily there is STILL some ways to counter it, such as last second heals/shields, and that it takes time to stack for the full damage.

ABOMINATION Pyke 's is the biggest problem and the most terribly designed. not only it is ranged, not only it is AOE, not only its base damage and scaling are extremely overpowered so far that you'll be executed at 50% health if you build no health, but it also ignores shields and damage reduction. AND IT IS RESETTABLE. WTF? ON AN ASSASSIN WITH GAP CLOSERS

the shy top1/3/2019, 9:54:09 PM2 votes

It's a pretty stupid mechanic especially when pyke abuses that half health threshold. That's bullshit and balance team need to finally pull their fingers out of their ass and do something to fix him.

Infernape1/3/2019, 4:14:37 PM2 votes

I don't mind executes. But they should not be AoE, shouldn't reset ON TOP of being AoE and on top of them instantly killing whatever is at or below the threshold. Cough Pyke cough.

At least Eve's "execute" acts as a damage amp and Riven and Akali's work as bonus damage.

DarkTree11/4/2019, 3:35:12 AM2 votes

Veigar runs ultimate hunter, q-r on squishy = instadeath past 20-25 mins if he's not trolling, can usually do it once every minute if not sooner once he has hunter stacked + some cdr

Darius is an absoloute meme, but partially acceptable. darius, if remotely ahead, doesn't require to use ult in most matchups to kill someone, so it's usually just used like illaoi ult in a "lol trying to gank me free double kill" scenario

Garen %missing health true damage executes are f u n. if a tank's the villain they're no longer a tank, and squishies being within q-flash range if he builds tri is usually enough to kill them if they're the villain. it's also point & click. not offensively bad, as it's garen, but it's also garen. duality of garen

Pyke l o l

Urgot is a skillshot with a somewhat fair amount of windup and telegraphing, and doesn't scale. gives him a pretty huge powerspike at 6 which turns into a pretty decent teamfight pick tool later, but in lane w/ no jg help i think it's mostly fair.

Zed zed's damage being overloaded is a product of the game's damage in general being overloaded. fine design, numbers too high

Riven "it's riven" would suffice, but eh. unless she's building full ad, it doesn't really do that much damage until lategame

Evelynn historically not fun to play against, the mr shred + execute is certainly a factor in that

Jhin no comment for passive, ult has counterplay outside of teamfights if you're not playing yasuo which is always nice

executes add to the already high damage by making your health bar artificially lower by proxy of an execute champion existing near you. most of them aren't badly designed, it's just that pretty much everyone can get into the execute threshhold so easily due to high damage that they seem busted

Glory971/3/2019, 4:54:51 PM2 votes

For what reason do I even need an execute if I can just kill every enemy with 2 abilities anyways?

The thigh guy1/3/2019, 12:21:25 PM2 votes

I think executives are fine, when they aren’t at 50%. -.- looking you Pyke Garen Veigar

Solicitude1/3/2019, 2:43:23 PM1 votes

First off, and this happens in every moba and in league, if you are lower than 15% HP, you always had to leave the fight, especially if you are a squishy, since a stray skill from most champions will probably kill you, for example, a Syndra Q at lvl5 has 264.5 base damage (counting the damage from her passive), that alone is basically more than 10% of your HP, unless you are a tank, fighter or have a lot of HP for some reason. If she has 500 AP, her Q alone will deal 638.25 damage, which is probably more than 40% of a squishy's HP. So yeah, if you are less than 15% HP, a simple stray skill can kill, so either leave immediately or be extremely careful.

On a second note, from every champion you mentioned above, the only ones with a real execution are Urgot and Pyke. The reason is, execute, as technically defined, is an ability that, when its conditions are met, will kill its target no matter what. Thats what Urgot's ulty does, once its target drops at 25%HP, he will die, even if that 25% is 2k HP. The other abilities you mentioned are high damage abilities that scale, most of them, with %missing health.

If all these abilities were to be executes, then execute as a mechanic exists for many years now. Lee Sin's second cast of Q, Elise spider Q, Kai'sa passive, Morgana W, Volibear's active W, Riven's second cast R, are some of the skills that scale with target's missing health and in the past there were more. The reason why these skills are treated by players as executes is simply because they are used 99% to guarantee a kill on relatively low %HP targets. In that sense you could count Caitlyn R, Diana R, Draven R, Graves R, Karthus R, Kayn assassin R, Lux R, Syndra R, Xerath R, Ziggs R, along with a lot more skills, as executes since they are used to secures kills more often than not.

Leaf on Bush1/4/2019, 3:55:04 PM1 votes

Executes... It's more interesting than all champions just dealing flat damage. if you don't like Urgot or Pyke that's your problem. No need to question half the game. Also executes are a type of % health damage in case you didn't notice.

The Highest Noon1/3/2019, 9:48:46 PM1 votes

"Execute" is an unnecessary term in this game, and all it means is "True Damage". Cho Gath has been "executing" forever. Same with Garen, but his was Magic Damage always never true damage. Pantheon's Q auto-crits if you're below a certain point. It's actually fairly recent in this game's life cycle that "executes" have been a thing. I think it began with who...Evelynn? That the word was put into effect? I'unno. I'm fine with them. I don't know of a time when "executes" weren't ever a thing.

Sire Hippington1/4/2019, 2:17:31 AM1 votes

I'm fine with urgot, and Pyke wouldn#t be that bad if it wasn't for the damn reset...and his kit overall. I have more issues with high uptime executes like jhins passive, which just gives him way to much tankbusting for how his kit should work, similar with Kai'sa. Another issue for me is Garen vs Vilains, the normal ult is fine, but finishing a full tank from ~40%hp is just wrong.

Eranell1/4/2019, 5:04:02 AM1 votes

Many executes are overloaded

Pyke's is by far the worst. +300 gold to a team mate, casts extremely fast, scales absurdly, resets and even has AOE. Get rid of the reset (or at least delay it to be available until he is lvl 16) and the gold sharing would be a good start but far from enough. He not only has the highest armor (fucking 130!!! at lvl 18; that is 15 more than the second highest which is Braum) and second highes MR and 4th highest health at lvl 18 AS AN ASSASSIN he also heals most of the damage dealt to him how again? Oh right, by just being out of sight. Yes, he cant built health but that shouldn't justify an assassin to be top 4 for all defensive stats. Make it that only part of his bonus health is converted to AD and reduce his current defensive stats.

Darius' is close second. If it were to "only" deal double damage at 5 bleed stacks that would be fine ... but NO! Riot had to add the "Noxian Might" passive that pretty much tripples his ults base damage, applies all bleed stacks at once onto other champions and easily doubles almost all his other damage. It's also really easy for him to stick to an enemy unless he/she has Talon level mobility. Dont forget that he also gains movement speed fom his passive. AND dont forget that the bleed also profits from the increased AD of "Noxian Might". One stack of the bleed already deals 13-30 (+30% bAD) that means that every ability of him actually at least deals an additional 13+30%bAD. Not to mention that one single hit from him cuts down your armor all the way through the effect of BC with his E's passive Armor pen on top. He gives armor the middle finger more than any other champion.

Eve's is stupid, too. "Get him below bla bla and your damage is doubled." which pretty much always ends in a kill. Well, at least it has no resets. But we still need better ways to detect invisible enemies.

Urgot is one of the less problematic IMO. Though it has a pretty big range one can react to it with enough talent, since it is relatively narrow, unless he caught you with his E. It's damage by itself also is very underwhelming (300+ 50%AD) and in lane his ways of escape are very limited so ask your jungler for help if you cant deal with him on your own. Lastly, killing him is NOT the only way to get out of his ult. QSS cleanses the pull and a rightly timed Zhonya's does pretty much the same even when you got hit by the drill. Yes QSS wont be much use otherwise against him but it is a possibility. Not to mention GPs STUPID ORANGE!

Veigar's laning phase is subpar so if you let him get to the point where he is oneshoting you over and over again you are the one doing something wrong. Take cleanse with you if you happen to have problems with him in lane. It helps quite a bit.

Lastly I'm not even gonna talk very long about Riven and Zed. Damage right now is busted and assassins as well as bruisers are the bane of SoloQ. Zed would be fine if he had to actually hit one of his shuriken to kill his target but E+AA is normally enough in lategame against anyone who isn't a Sion, Malphite, Rammus or Cho'Gath that solely build armor and health. That is pretty much the problem with all assassins. You dont even need to put much effort into killing a high priority target. Often times you dont even have to ult.

Bârd1/3/2019, 8:30:27 PM1 votes

They're fine, but true executes should be rare.

I'd rather have Reap than Dark Harvest.

DragonShea1/3/2019, 4:11:44 PM1 votes

Don't mind executes, the problem is when they deal too much damage of the bat or the execute threshold is too high. They need a condition or a weakness that can be countered.

Yljin1/3/2019, 5:04:43 PM1 votes

I main Camille, so I know the pain of playing against Urgot, and even though he makes me want to shoot myself, his ult is not impossible to dodge, and had plenty of counterplay even if you've been hit. Pyke's ult doesn't have as much counterplay, but it has a weird hitbox and a healthy delay. As long as point-and-click executes don't have an indicator, I'm content.

Nea1041/3/2019, 7:06:32 PM1 votes

Just another way to reward burst over sustain/tankiness.

woodvsmurph1/3/2019, 11:55:03 AM1 votes

If the kit is balanced around that execute so that their other stats/abilities are comparatively weaker, then I'm fine with it. Like urgot's other basic abilities are not overly strong and/or can be avoided with reasonable ease. So he has to work harder to land them properly and get you into that execute range than say a jax or renekton would. And while jax and renekton can get you low more easily, they don't have an execute like urgot does.

So what I'm trying to say with those examples is that it can be balanced out in their kit and make it fair, or it can be done poorly and make it broken. I think urgot is ok. I think garen's get's a bit silly with how much base damage his other abilities offer and how easy they are to proc compared to urgot - especially when the villain passive comes into play. Not saying garen is broken - he's not - but that his execute seems a bit more powerful than it should be considering the rest of his kit and then comparing that to urgot. And that's just an opinion.