Can we nerf Riven and Vayne yet?

Scottsc20·3/20/2019, 7:20:42 PM·60 votes·14,718 views

Jesus Christ, these champions have been rampant for months. They are picked semi-regularly in pro play with good results, and have been sitting at stupidly high win, pick, and ban rates in solo Q for a while. Vayne is currently #5 in win rate, #2 in pick rate, and #1 in ban rate. Riven is #2 in win rate, #1 in pick rate, and #7 in ban rate. If these were any other champions, they would have been hard nerfed by now. But since they are the poster girls for LoL, guess they will stay dominant.

35 Comments

5050BS3/20/2019, 7:45:59 PM34 votes

Riot said "No Riven is fine, the Asian markets are all we care about"

Sir Saltarin3/20/2019, 11:09:02 PM16 votes

Nerf Vladimir now that you are on it

SuperTopLFBottom3/21/2019, 1:14:36 AM16 votes

Sorry can't do that unfortunately they are JUST below a made up threshold. It is very unfortunate for riot full r word games that they cannot nerf champions that are close to that made up bullshit threshold but that's how it is.

Besides there are ALWAYS champs going to be on top of a certain role so why even bother?

Brought to you by: People that get paid real actual thousands of dollar per month to do nothing but sit in an office for 8 hours a day 5 days a week four weeks a month to balance the game.

Bisaknosp3/21/2019, 6:13:08 AM11 votes

how come no1 ever mentions Vladimir ?

FSRER3/21/2019, 2:15:11 PM10 votes

Riven is the most cancerous toplaner BY FAR, BY FUCKING FAR. LITERALLY THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO TO BEAT HER, NOTHING. I main jax, ok? but not the juggernaut jax that riot forced us to play but the duelist one (item 3153 item 3078 item 3124) Duelist jax is supposed to be (at least at one point was) the best duelist champion which could beat every melee champion in toplane. Riven was never an exception, why is she now?? BECAUSE SHE WAS LEFT BUFFED AND UNLIKE MOST CHAMPIONS SHE NEVER GOT BALANCED. WHAT IS THIS?

V8.13 Stats Base health regeneration increased to 7 from 5.5. Blade of the Exile Cooldown reduced to 120 / 90 / 60 seconds from 130 / 95 / 60.

**V7.24 Broken Wings Base damage increased to 15 / 35 / 55 / 75 / 95 from 10 / 30 / 50 / 70 / 90. AD ratio increased to 45 / 50 / 55 / 60 / 65% AD from 40 / 45 / 50 / 55 / 60% AD **

V7.22 Stats Base attack damage increased to 64 from 56.04. Base armor increased to 33 from 24.376. Runic Blade Rune charge duration increased to 6 seconds from 5. Ki Burst Base damage increased to 55 / 85 / 115 / 145 / 175 from 50 / 80 / 110 / 140 / 170. Valor Shield strength increased to 95 / 125 / 155 / 185 / 215 from 90 / 120 / 150 / 180 / 210

ok i get that back then she was at a weaker state but COME THE FUCK ON!!! And riven mains think this is balanced? A CHAMPION THAT CAN NOT LOSE TO ANYTHING?! HECK, WITH THIS DAMAGE AND COOLDOWNS SHE CAN BEAT EVEN GAREN NOW, FUCKING GAREN, THE BIGGEST RIVEN COUNTER!!!!

The op strategy to beat every melee champion? q in q again auto, w, auto, e back out and q to get even more distance. And all that in 3 seconds. Renekton used to do that back in the days (some old players understand what I mean) but since it was obviously cancerous, riot nerfed it. BUT RIVEN SELLS TOO MANY SKINS FOR THEM TO DO SO, DOESN'T SHE? SAME WITH VAYNE. But oh no "she is just a NA frustration".

Riot, get your hands off your pockets, start playing your game (THEY HAVE ADMITED THEY DO NOT PLAY LEAGUE) and fix the champions like you used to because many people don't know that, riot used to balance the game just fine (remember when evelynn was kept in the shitter on purpose? because leaving stealth and bursting people, riot knew it was broken? Yeah good days).

But i don't want to just rant. I have a solution! Some balancing that could bring riven back to a balanced position.

Passive Current: Runic Blade INNATE: Riven's blade gains a Charge for 6 seconds every time she uses an ability (stacks up to 3 times). Riven's basic attacks consume a Charge when available to deal 25% − 50% (based on level) AD bonus physical damage.

Fix: Runic Blade INNATE: Riven's blade gains a Charge for 3 (either use everything or gtfo) seconds every time she uses an ability (stacks up to 3 times). Riven's basic attacks consume a Charge when available to deal 15% − 60% (based on level) AD bonus physical damage. Her build is pure ad, her current passive is too rewarding at laning phase but with the increased damage she would still be good and even better at late game teamfights.

Q Current: ACTIVE: Riven Dash dashes towards the target nearest to the cursor or in the direction she is currently facing, dealing physical damage to all enemies in front of her. Broken Wings can then be reactivated twice within the next 4 seconds, with the second cast refreshing the timer.

PHYSICAL DAMAGE:» 15 / 35 / 55 / 75 / 95 (+ 45 / 50 / 55 / 60 / 65% AD) Broken Wings' third cast damages all enemies around Riven in an expanded radius, and Airborne icon knocks them up. Riven can cross terrain during this cast.

Each Broken Wings cast causes her next basic attack to occur more quickly. This is not considered a basic attack timer reset.

Fix: You know, this is her main damage source so, this should not change, except THE LAST THING Each Broken Wings cast causes her next basic attack to occur more quickly. This is not considered a basic attack timer reset. this has to fucking go. Why get auto reset? What the reason? Isn't her q damage enough?? Answer: yes it is enough. Oh and maybe that q knockup hitobx? Yeah that is broken.

W

Current: EFFECT RADIUS: 125 / 135 COOLDOWN: 11 / 10 / 9 / 8 / 7 Ki Burst ACTIVE: Riven's sword emits a burst of runic energy that shocks nearby enemies, dealing physical damage and applying a stun for 0.75 seconds.

PHYSICAL DAMAGE: 55 / 85 / 115 / 145 / 175 (+ 100% bonus AD)

Fix: That radius? Lowered, 115 / 125. She either q on you and w you or that WILL NOT HIT. CD from 11 / 10 / 9 / 8 / 7 to 15 / 13 / 10 / 8 / 6. Right now, she has too low cooldowns in lane which makes her way too easy to play. this fix forces her to time it well early on but have it on lower cd at late so that she can still be strong. Also that bonus ad, scaling on w level reaching up to 110%.

E

Current: TARGET RANGE: 325 COOLDOWN: 10 / 9 / 8 / 7 / 6 Valor ACTIVE: Riven Dash dashes in the direction of the cursor, shielding herself for 1.5 seconds.

SHIELD STRENGTH: 95 / 125 / 155 / 185 / 215 (+ 100% bonus AD)

Fix: That shield, that damned shield. This makes her impossible to 1v1. Range must be lowered to 290, cd to 13 / 11 / 9 / 8 / 7 so that there is a 1v1 window to her and finally the shield ratio should remain the same (because it would be too weak if it did not shield that much) and again, bonus ad ratio DECREASED to 25% maxing out at 75%. Obvious reasons.

R That fucking execute wannabe R

Current: COOLDOWN: 120 / 90 / 60 Blade of the Exile ACTIVE: Riven transforms her sword for 15 seconds, gaining (20% AD) bonus attack damage, 75 bonus range on her basic attacks, increased range on Broken Wings, and Ki Burst, as well as becoming able to cast Wind Slash once for the duration. What is wind slash? A wave that does up to 200% more dmg based on your missing health with a minimum damage at lvl 1 being 100 +60% bonus ad (so it becomes like 160 with 100 ad if she casts it when you are full hp, still cancer) and max rank being (lvl 1 always) 300 +180% bonus ad. Hmmmmmmmm oh also it has an effect radius of 900....YEAH

Fix: Yeah, lets have a look at Wind slash. Damage, 0 - 100% based on missing health, Range lowered to 60 Bonus ad at max rank lowered to 120% because that much on a lvl 6 1v1 is impossible to beat even for tanks (btw, did you know what you can totally counter riven by building armor? Yeah thats at the death recap tips and it is totally -100% acurate) And the radius lowered to 700 because 900 range combined with LoLtm hitboxes is broken as fuck Oh and now i notice it, bonus range on q and w? I don't get it, do they think that riven players are braindead thats why they give them such help? Yeah, get that shit out of here, make it to give only on q so she can catch fast targets.

And that is pretty much it. With these changes she should be good to go.

FemalesAreLesser3/20/2019, 7:38:14 PM7 votes

Sweats Nervously

Flashes3/21/2019, 1:52:44 AM4 votes

I started maining Vayne because I got the soulstealer skin, but also because I wanted to onetrick a safe ADC because I thought that Vayne just sat in the back and whittled down tanks while Qing back whenever danger arises.

Flash forward now and I can tell you for a fact that Vayne feels so bad to play against, even though I main her.

Crescent Dusk3/22/2019, 5:35:06 AM4 votes

Riven does way too much damage for how mobile and overloaded her kit is with a low cc dash shield and an instant cast aoe stun on top.

Either the numbers come down or her stupid chi burst should lose the stun.

PeachBuns3/21/2019, 1:38:53 AM3 votes

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/builds/by-winrate

Here are your stats. Going by winrate, JINX #1, Riven #12, Vayne #20.

Not Ganking Bot3/22/2019, 12:44:26 PM3 votes

Riot Jatt posted some shitty explanation on reddit that riven is not broken in korea and therefore should not be nerfed so basically thats never going to happen, you just have to ban it if you don't want to play against it, yes it's literally 100% cancer to play against her and she's absolutely fucking ridiculous but again, NA is like a 3 out of 10 on riots priority scale because in asian markets is where LoL has not only its largest player base but makes the most money, and there's probably a lot of skin sales on riven in asian markets.

The same would likely make sense for vayne as well.

Riven also happens to be played somewhat frequently in lcs and has a 5.5% playrate combined through all the leagues and only has a 47% winrate, although thats because of some riven jungle losses, but riven top in lcs is almost 56% winrate.

KennysDreamGirl3/21/2019, 1:58:24 PM2 votes

is it really them that are a problem or is it just the items they take that are overtuned. to me it seems like most champion imbalance in league could be fixed by tuning down alot of items they build

TheTiger983/21/2019, 4:20:03 PM2 votes

Just play Poppy

IP Masquerena3/22/2019, 10:25:11 AM1 votes

Thing is, if you look at more than win/play/ban rates, you'll notice something different about Riven.

  • Diamond: KDA - 6.1/5.2/4.5 Gold: 11.134 (#41) Damage: 15.152 (#92)

  • Platinum: KDA: 6.4/5.4/4.7 Gold: 11.442 (#37) Damage: 15.943 (#90)

Those are average stats, but I don't think they look like a champion that's "OMFGBBQCHOCOLATEBROKENOPIMBALANCED" as you guys make her to be.

As for her mains, which Riot already stated that there are a lot more players with 100 recent games on her than newer players in that 15% pick rate.

She is over rated, simple as that. Due to her huge main population I'm that play rate, it's only normal for her to have a positive win rate, it would've ment she's complete and utter trash if it was negative.

No-one is denying that she's on the good side right now, but OP? Give me a break. Just because wins a game in which is doesn't mean she's carrying, and the stats above, in plat and diamond show that most often than not, she's just there. Not feeding, but not carrying either.

Of course she's a problem in NA, NA, depending on who you ask is considered one of the worst regions skill wise, and how can she be a problem for the Asian side? Koreans ate the best players and some other countries in that region aren't a dumb dumbs either. I still remember watching a video from Skill Capped on how to lane when behind and one thing they said made me burst in laughter. " The mistakes Jax made aren't something you see often in high elo, but in lower tiers like Diamond, Platinum and NA challenger, the opponents will give you a lot of opportunities to come back from a lost lane".

Maybe take a step back, tie your hands so you can't rage type a response, calm down from being enraged by being called lower skilled than the Asians, and think:

  • Why is she only a problem in the regions that are considered lower skill wise while in others where the players are much more skilled, she isn't?
  • Why anywhere bellow Master/Grandmaster/Challenger she's only there, not doing much for the win herself?

She's a second Yasuo, if remotely playable, people cry.

CyanSolution2473/22/2019, 6:30:18 AM1 votes

yea i want to start banning champs that i actually hate playing against (Graves Graves for me) instead of champions that i feel that i allways get dicked by ( Vayne Vayne) as a Nunu Nunu 1 trick.

rtbf2476264236/30/2019, 5:30:12 PM1 votes

i hope EA buys riot then closes them out as a game studio like what they did with so many others