How AP Bruiser items can exist

R0ses R Red·7/22/2019, 12:18:40 AM·5 votes·5,705 views

I've thought about it for it a while, and I realized that AP Bruiser items can't exist without being broken or complete trash, but there's a way around it. The biggest hurdle for AP Bruisers is the fact that they can't **actually **deal sustained damage. Since their autos are relatively pitiful, they must mimic it by stacking CDR to spam abilities. So that's one stat they need; though it implicates spamming, so they also need mana. Being a bruiser, they're likely to be frontlining, so that's also health or defense. They're bruisers, not tanks, so also scale with and need ap. They literally need everything.

A lack of any of these is too weak as seen by our current "AP Bruiser" itemization, but all of it together obviously breaks every mage. What I think is that CDR can substitute some of these stats similarily to how it substituted auto attacks to create sustained damage. If you allow these items to break the CDR cap like Hail of Blades does for attack speed, you can get away with them giving far less AP, which makes them less appealing to mages and hybrids that'd much rather one-shot potential. What I have in mind is an item slapped with a ludicrous amount of mana(1,000+) to burn that's a core item similar to Lich Bane, but, instead of triggering damage, it should increase armor & mr for a duration and/or heal for an amount based on your maximum mana.

Basing it on mana keeps glass cannons from becoming pseudo-tanky like Riven does with Death's Dance, and the benefits of additional armor & mr can only be felt by users that don't die instantly, aka, champions that can survive burst, which means they're probably building hp. The concept forces users to tap into mana and hp.

Followup items should heavily value mana and CDR, offer no more than 60/40/30~ish ap, and have some decent amount of hp which is pretty variable. By doing this, excess mana becomes an important stat rather than useless though implications I see are mages going this route to spam CC and Ryze, Kassadin, and Vlad being their regular selves.

39 Comments

SuicidePlank7/22/2019, 12:22:38 AM5 votes

No. Would be abused by every mage and they already dominate everything. Nerf AP Items, then release new good AP Items.

TheBrothersGrymm7/22/2019, 6:19:02 AM2 votes

item 3116 item 3151 item 3152 item 3165 are all technically ap bruiser items, hp and damage o,o

xDogMeatx7/22/2019, 12:27:50 AM2 votes

imo i think the bruiser items should scale on mana. then add in resists.

I Like Teemo7/22/2019, 12:28:02 AM2 votes

ap bruiser items would have so many different stats it would either have to match trinity force in power + cost or be so low its spammed by all mages

cdr health ap / ad+ap active/passive effect

item 3102 is basically weaker ap item 3156

if item 3053 for example was ap Katarina Akali Sylas the would 2nd/3rd item it like every game

Rıots Bad Client7/22/2019, 10:10:10 AM1 votes

with AP bruiser items, certain champions would require a Nerf. Like Vladimir Namely.

I think item 3100 Could be easily turned into an AP Bruiser item. And Dont base it off AP to scale autos.

wolvius7/22/2019, 9:59:13 PM1 votes

The ultimate problem with AP bruiser is what do you scale them with. Ad bruiser have hp (survivability), AD, some AS (or sheen or some other AA related stat) and CDR for abilities.

What do AP bruisers want AP, CDR and hp, they cant really useitem 3115 because no health and every AP scaling has to be done with deathcap in mind. Lich as well because has Ap ratio.

A significant number of mage items already have hp so that's cant be only ap bruiser. Unlike how adcs builds don't have health on their items, crit bortk etc.

AP and CDR are mage utilused as well. So what do you do for AP bruiser ? Give their items great effects? Cassio,veigir and ryze abused item 3001 which got its range nerfed and have gotten other items nerfed and will continue until you give AP bruisers a unique stat that can't be used by mages.

Also the hextech glp got changed to an even less used item that has no health or cataltsyt passive so that suxks now.

DragonShea7/23/2019, 12:32:30 AM1 votes

Riot doesn't have any real concept of stats when they made the game, so when things got more stabilized like the meta. They didn't account for AD champs having more means of dealing more damage and that AP champs didn't. Riot have to make special changes to Mages in order for those AP items to work or make bruiser items adaptive, which, may or may not ruin their itemization unless they have a kit made for it. Look at Morde now. He still builds AP items but that is because they health and health is worth far more than resistances in this meta so he can scale really well into the game, if they dont have HP they have mana and CDR.

Either way both items and Kit needs to be fixed to fit a AP bruiser Identity but what would that be?

MagicFlyingLlama7/22/2019, 12:23:42 AM1 votes

AP bruisers are mostly designed to mitigate this. While they need work, they are certainly not unbalance.

LordGeovanni7/22/2019, 2:22:26 AM1 votes

they can exist they just cant have a shit ton of ap on them much like how most ad bruiser items have 40 ad on them or less black cleaver being the only one higher for ap buiser items 55 ap would be good (with rebalancing to items like nashors tooth liandries and Morellos). and other way around is ap items cant have 300 and 500 hp on them.item 3027 item 3151 item 3165 .

Edit: your idea just lets ranged squishy mages build that items and item 3040 for a really oppressive all the damage and all the defense combo that will break ap bruisers that areadyy have built in defenses that riot gives them to pad their lack of specific itemization like the shield on Diana (which your suggesstion will allow to be almost permanently up and stronger than ever) or the shield on Sylas and the heal too. Idk how you intend to break the CDR cap that would make Swain broken along with Ryze and even if you made it melee only would break battle mages like Mordekaiser Rumble Ideal people for your ap bruiser catagory but would have to nerf their Pre getting that item and any build without that item CDR and Damage wise the tie to Mana wont be able to out value the CDR break (if its the same item) and morde would have literal no down time once he got it not that he has much now.

Lovelle7/22/2019, 6:09:44 AM1 votes

Are AP bruisers even struggling right now? Nearly all of them have been consistent balance problems and have gotten nerfed. It's already pretty easy to simultaneously build damage and defense as an AP champion, does AP itemization really need more right now? I've lterally never played a champ like Gragas and thought, "wow my itemization really leaves much to be desired."

IMO APs already have best itemization in the game currently. AP champions don't really have to make any sacrifices to get the stats they want. especially since their items are much easier (and cost efficient) to build.