I'm not touching support till they do something about the gold gen.

A Bad Mystic·11/27/2019, 4:24:34 PM·30 votes·12,488 views

Its beyond horrible. If i get forced to support ill dodge and go play some other game. legit bought one item and boots and couldnt afford anything else. After i finished my tribute for the free upgrade i lost all income. Maybe if id bought a damage item instead of a support item i actually couldve gotten some kills to stay viable.

This change might be good for teams that get ahead and can get kill asssists but if youre on the losing side of a match you might as well ff asap once you complete your quest.

37 Comments

Draehl11/27/2019, 4:54:51 PM13 votes

One would think if we're going to lose our late game gold generation we would at least keep the minion execute heal/mana regen on the starting support items. Should be able to keep our early game sustain if we're going to get screwed late game.

Waka FIocka11/27/2019, 9:25:41 PM12 votes

a lot of ignorant players that dont main supp come here saying otherwise, even celebrating the massive nerfs to this role. we've been nothing but lane leechers for years and now we can barely even do that much if even slightly behind. can't farm either with 4/5 of enemy team roaming botside constantly. not only are we gold starved but we are also supremely underleveled compared to mid who is kinda intended to roam botside. doesn't seem fair tbh. toplane is tumbleweed ghost town while botlane is explosive chaos for the entire game

Emperør Rhaast11/27/2019, 5:27:12 PM10 votes

i dont get it, how the actual fuck are supports meant to get any gold at all after finishing the quest? it seems the only way now is killing wards, farming, and killing jungle camps, the latter two most supports can't even do due to a lack of waveclear and damage save for pyke, senna, and most mages. What was the point of this change? to make even less people play support so more people will buy their ahri skins??

Eppidemic11/27/2019, 7:21:53 PM10 votes

I'm going to add the same comment on every "supports need more gold" thread. Before the gold generating support items, we used to be able to get gp10 through runes. I used gp10 quints on my supports, and it was very helpful They switched masteries to runes and runes to rune stats so we need riot to add gp10 to rune stats again. Not perfect, but it would help.

Rαy11/27/2019, 11:22:24 PM7 votes

Agreed, it feels really bad after completing tier 3.

Ozias of Scagnar11/27/2019, 8:58:36 PM7 votes

I would just be happy if they did away with the punishment on farming, I've had a couple of games where the ADC was afk, or bad at CS'ing, and I'm forced to just watch all this free gold fall down around me because I can't have it, and the ADC can't get it.

TobiaskJ11/28/2019, 12:37:31 AM6 votes

So

In other words, in late game, no matter how active you are as support, you get the same amount of gold as an AFK support sitting in base. (past the 15 min mark) wtf is this?

realDRdeal11/27/2019, 10:12:05 PM5 votes

You don't lose all gold generation. You keep the 2 (or 3) gp10 and gets item upgrades (i.e., stats) WITHOUT PAYING FOR UPGRADES. I main support, and I assure you that if you know what you are doing and are playing an active role in the game, you will still be getting a good amount of gold from revealing and clearing wards, objectives, and assists (and the occasional kill). If you aren't getting gold then you need to get more involved in the game and make plays or force tempo. Even in my most passive/low kill games I have only been a little behind where I would have been last season. And if there are lots of fights then I still quickly find myself in the same situation as before with a full or nearly full build (leaving a slot for control wards too in most cases, except for super late game finally pushes/fights).

Kalienor11/28/2019, 1:33:23 AM4 votes

After i finished my tribute for the free upgrade i lost all income.

And by then you have 2 support-dedicated items. At the 20 minutes mark, you already have 30% CdR, 30mana/5, extra move speed and about 240 AP. With an extra Idol, you hit that 40% CdR~infinite mana, you have all the time in the world to finish this Redemption and basically you're full stuff.

The Deathcap on Supports fantasy was incredibly harmful for the game, supports have their own items line and they're extremely cost effective to compensate the loss of gold. You know, the items nobody was doing anymore because supports had enough income to buy fricking Luden's?...

Why was it harmful? Because if the support is building damage, then no peeling is enough to make your mates survive, so the opposing support can only either bring damage too, or catching tools (hooks). Then, there is no cooperation between players because you don't need to be a great shotcaller to force someone into helping you killing a champion you dragged at his feet; and there's no need to play with your team if your role consists in adding the same exact thing carries are providing. The lack of cooperation makes everyone play damage or strong engages to be able to rely the least on others, and from a team game with compositions and strategy, you end up with the Temple of Mechanics.

Now, you remove damage from supports and lane contingency on junglers to make them focus on utility and drakes, you can have tanks in games and they won't blow up because they won't encounter 5 carries at the same time. And tanks are team-reliant too, so it's important to make them come back imo (not full tank meta, I mean just having tanks in teams to peel/engage).

Specialization of roles was allowing more strategy and game depth; after a year and a half emphasizing on versatility, we now know it just becomes a damage creep meta and that was the most frequent complaint about S9 situation. Now we have to nerf a LOT supports and junglers to get back to a healthier meta, it needs some adjustments but the basis is pretty encouraging for me. And by adjustments, I'm talking about Riot but also about players, it's difficult to rethink the way you play, a lot of people I've met underplay everything because they're afraid, they don't know what they can and can't do anymore and don't want to rely on their mates for anything. Actually, when I play support, I have a lot of adc not trying to trade or anything because they're used to not being helped; and now when you're adc, your support will often be extremely passive because he doesn't trust his lane partner. I feel like we lost years of botlane evolution in 18 months of supports having almost the same direct impact as other players (on top of having indirect impact on the game, that's the real problem here). I hope it won't take years to rebuild that DUO lane trust.

FSRER11/27/2019, 5:58:47 PM4 votes

The current situation reminds me of Overwatch that they are bribing you to play Tanks (giving you loot boxes and premium currency for each match). They either have to do the same or support role will die

oOHiram11/28/2019, 2:17:10 PM3 votes

Items are fine...

Thingamajig11/27/2019, 4:26:57 PM2 votes

had a game with pyke where i was 2 items up on everyone in the game still lost tho 1v9s with pyke aint as easy as i remember

Skia Asteri11/27/2019, 7:13:55 PM2 votes

I am curious how much of a buff support income people that complain about their income think is needed.

For the sake of having a focused discussion, lets use Plat+ as a baseline, where average game time including surrenders is just shy of 28 minutes.

Below is more information that can be used by people who care to try giving reasonable answers:

So if we subtract 1 minute since gold gen does not start till a bit after one minute, that is 27 minutes for gold generation (rounding up since it is possible to get gold sooner via level 1 fights). So the conversion ration is 1 gold per 10 = 27 * 6 = 162 gold average across an average length game. The base line minimum income for a champion in the 27 minutes gold per 10 is active is (20.4 * 27 * 6) + 500 starting gold = 3804.8 gold.

Do refer to lolalytics for item completion times. You can compare with 9.22 by setting the filter to that patch. Just keep in mind the new support items don't show up as a completed item while the old ones did. Check champion.gg for average income numbers.

For bonus points take a gander at champions in other lanes on those sites, especially those that get played both in support and in a farming role.

I personally think based on available stats that the only income buff that there is room for would be removing or at least relaxing the anti-poaching mechanic on the tier 3 income items item 3853 item 3864 item 3860 item 3857 .

I will check back tomorrow to see what people think and to make a post about why there is not much room for a buff as things stand.

Saezio11/27/2019, 11:54:38 PM2 votes

Sell support item after quest completion and proceed to farm, in protest to these changes.

Show them your disapproval and if enough people do this surely they will revert the change.

Warmas11/28/2019, 5:16:22 PM2 votes

Interisting from 70% of my games the support sits on 3 items when toplaner gets to their 2nd. I wonder if its so bad for the support what is it for top whcih in theory got "better" this preaseason.

G0blinSlay3r11/28/2019, 8:08:21 PM2 votes

i think it's trash.. just another prison.

Jennifer1711/28/2019, 8:09:57 PM2 votes

riot: oh you dont wanna play support anymore? and many MANY MAAAAANY other dont play it either? well, time to autofill you you little fuckers ahahaha

Boosted JG 4Head11/28/2019, 8:50:09 PM2 votes

Didn't they remove the cost from upgrading the support item? That should be some decent compensation that makes it much better for supports early. Instead of having to spend an extra 450 gold (or was it 500, can't remember) to upgrade your support item, you can now just start your secondary item. Considering it would take a lot of time to proc that extra 450 (500) gold, it is already a big boost to the early-mid game for supports. Sure, later in the game, the gold generation doesn't feel as impactful, but you are already ahead of the curve by not having to spend money for the second and third upgrades.

I do not think that is a big problem. After all, games do not last that long to the point where the old items would proc that much to pass the gold gained with the new iteration of the support items.

On a side note, to those complaining about gp10 runes etc, Riot has a lot of runes implemented to grant free gold essentially. Free boots in the inspiration tree that grant you free 300 gold + 10 more MS, Gathering Storm is also there for extra stats to be gained etc.

I think people just hate the fact that they do not get tribute procs later in the game anymore and it feels "passive" gold generation. I can say that I kinda agree, I liked the tribute +22 procs, but in terms of gold generation, supports are better now than what they were before.

Lystrates11/29/2019, 3:36:06 PM2 votes

Omg after completing tier 3 of the support item, my gold income stops to a crawl (unless I am ahead and getting kills). At that point, my team has to carry me and it feels terrible.

I see no reason why Supports should be item starved. No clue what is Riot thinking.

Mortismo11/29/2019, 5:46:34 PM1 votes

WHY THEY NERF SUPPORT?? :( ITS ONLY BEEN OP FOR 3 SEASONS :(

Unironic SJW11/29/2019, 1:57:24 AM1 votes

lol "support mains" in this thread who are mad they can't take mages bot and have carry level impact without having to farm under pressure. You're still 80% of bot's impact for the first 15-20 minutes of the game, and even if you fuck up your ADC's lane you get all the chances in the world to come back by just roaming.

kocikreka11/27/2019, 11:53:59 PM1 votes

"laughs in jungle" crying sounds

thefatlazycat11/27/2019, 10:29:08 PM1 votes

I've already migrated my Swain to bottom lane, it's a mess

Sirsir11/29/2019, 2:16:40 AM1 votes

That's funny because in most of the games it's worth more gold than it used to be. People fixate on the quest gold cap and don't realize all the money you get in stats from the free upgrades

item 3858 for 400g becomes item 3860 which is worth 1670g. You get 1270g net gain in stats, plus 1k from the gen. 2270g + passive gen. I'm not certain of the numbers but most game didn't break that with the old gold items. AND you still get some Gp10, 1 more than the old item.

Sure if it goes very late game its a nerf, but how often does that happen anymore? I have one game in my match history that went past 40 mins. And that was only because they screwed around after they 'won'

Not to mention the tribute gains were about impossible to profit from late game anyway. You can't usually get in prolonged poke trades for spellthiefs because if you are even slightly out of step you die. And NO ONE WANTS TO LET YOU USE YOUR FUCKING TARGONS AFTER LANE PHASE!!! God forbid they risk someone else getting the targons gold...

I'm probably going to get downvoted because I dare defy the boards circlejerk, but it's truth

ImGoingScotty11/29/2019, 8:15:45 AM1 votes

I haven't had an issue with it but my main supports are Alistar Sona and sometimes Zyra .. usually getting the level 2 advantage allows me to go ham on the enemy and secure a kill.. there's some gold right there just rushing level 2..

ChaddyFantome12/2/2019, 3:24:46 AM1 votes

I dont understand why they took away CDR from the support item, a class that was historically designed around having more uptime on spells to conpensate for lack of personal damage and agency, while midlane mages are getting 30 CDR from one item as we speak.

It doesnt make any sense.