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Let's Talk About Lee Sin

I am Stove·10/31/2016, 10:06:37 AM·15 votes·885 views

When talking about champions that are overloaded or unbalanced, we all immediately point our fingers at YasuoYasuo . This is definitely not unjustified, but there is a champ that has been consistently a huge issue in the way of balance since his release: Lee SinLeeSin .

Let's start with his damage output. A full, optimal combo (QERQ) at max rank will do 1140 + (480% bonus AD)+(8% missing health) damage with no AA's. That looks like a lot a numbers, but for comparison that is more raw damage than:

GravesGraves 1075 + (315% bonus AD)+(60% bonus AP) ZedZed 705 + (305% bonus AD)+(100% total AD) This is assuming Zed lands all 3 possible shurikens. I am also aware that Zed's damage is highly variable with his ult, but I am comparing scaling. TalonTalon 1035 + (460% bonus AD) Yes, this does include the 15% damage amp from his E. Kha'ZixKhazix 706 + (380% bonus AD)

So he does tons of damage. Doesn't mean a whole lot if he has limited utility, right? That's where things start to get ugly. To identify just how much utility a champ has, we will simply count. Soft CCs count as 1, Hard CCs are 2, Shield (1), Heal (1), dash (1), dash that can traverse terrain (2), vision (1), buff or debuff (1). Additionally, a utility will count for 2 if it affects both the user and recipient. Lee Sin has many forms of utility that include an attack speed buff, 2 dashes that traverse terrain, 2 true sight grants, self shield, ally shield, life steal, spell vamp, a slow, a root (that stops dashes btw. Not cool, Riot), a knock back, and a knock up. The total using the numerical values assigned is 18. Using the same formula, we find that Lee Sin provides more utility than any other champion in the game. Some notable comparisons are:

JannaJanna 11 ThreshThresh 13 LeonaLeona 14 TaricTaric 10 SonaSona 13

You'll notice that the aforementioned champions are some of the most utility based champions LoL has to offer. You'll also notice that they are all supports, and don't have quite as high scaling abilities as other champs because they offer so much in the way of utility.

So why is it ok that Lee can have the most utility of anyone, and also the potential to out-damage some of the most bursty AD champions in the game? Why is it ok that while most other champions are constantly getting tuned or reworked for the sake of balance, Riot continues to turn a blind eye to the blind monk? Why is it ok that two of his abilities grant true vision despite him being unable to actually see anything in the first place (that's more of a thematic issue)? There's a reason Lee Sin has been a cornerstone pick in most seasons since his release, and it's not that he can make flashy plays. The reason is that his kit is extremely overloaded and ultimately very unhealthy for the game.

16 Comments

DemoGuide10/31/2016, 10:58:46 AM6 votes

Lee Sin is definitely a cancer champion. Actually, the only champ i hate because of gameplay reasons. I hate him more than Riven, Vayne and Ahri all together.

Ruin Lance10/31/2016, 10:18:15 AM5 votes

this is actually so biased that it's insane. it's like your twisting it to make it sound like lee is the most broken champion in the game (he's not by the way)

saying his kit is overloaded is right. saying that it's unbalanced is wrong. he can only use so much of it at once. sure he has a shield, but it's very weak. sure he can give vision, but only to those in a very small radius around him. sure he can heal, but only for a small amount, and only to himself, and he can only redeem it via lifesteal.

also, just because he has a higher scaling in his burst than a lot of ad assassins doesn't mean he will deal more burst. lee sin usually does not build full ad unlike the champions you mentioned. lee sin is a bruiser/tank who doesn't build that much AD.

Astôlfo10/31/2016, 10:10:25 AM4 votes

On the other hand he's still trash even with all the utility because his numbers and kit have specifically been nerfed into the ground due to said utility. The only reason he's even notable at all is because the best players in the world do okayISH on him. He's also picked because he's flashy in professional play, which means more interest in watching, which means more income.

B00B0010/31/2016, 11:27:33 AM4 votes

except if you suck on yasuo you get flattened and the same with lee sin, as opposed to say.....yi.

Sire Hippington10/31/2016, 9:26:48 PM4 votes

A small correction: He was not a balance issue since realse, but since S3 when Wardsteps became a low cost feature on him. His kit has alot it can do(had even more), but it all was pretty conditional. However, with the wardsteo, his ganks no longer require him to land Q on high range or haveing a setup from an ally that he can use as taxi, hi just walks at you, wardhps in your face and slows you with E, usually forceing you to use an escape and then he follows with his Q. It also allows him stupid gankpaths, like wardinghoping over a wall behind the opposing laner and kicking them away from their tower. And mostly, it gives him massive playmakeing potential in the lategame. Without wardsteps, lee actully had a hard time reaching the right targets, and kicking a carry into your team was nearly impossible without flash, and even with flash it was quite hard to do so. He also had to be more carefull then invadeing cause he needed an allies help to escape or pray that krugs(golems back in the days) where still up so he can Q over the wall.

Now he can go where ever he wants and has an easy way out, he can use absurd gank paths or just walk straight into lane and hop to your face anyway which all allows him to abuse the shit out of his early damage and sustain, and he doesn't even fall of late cause there is always the potential to with a teamfight with a single kick.(all that ofc requires a great lee-player, but skillcap should not be a factor for balanceing)

Also, counting a self as-buff and self sustain/shield as utillity is just wrong. And not takeing in acount how easy one of those is to apply also is just biased. Same with ignoreing how strong such things are. Your list of CCs that Lee has makes it seem like he has more cc than naut, but the root only is ~0.1sec and tied to the knockback, and the knoackback target can't be hit by his knockup and vice versa. Bay your method, he would have nearly twice as much utillity than janna. Anyone with a somewhat decently working brain that vitnissed both champs in-game should know incredible absurd it is to state that lee has more utillity than janna, not to speak of twice the utillity. I hat Lee(mostly his wardstep) with a passion, but that 'utillity rankeing' of yours is just biased and wrong to the core...

Divewing10/31/2016, 8:11:39 PM3 votes

I'd honestly be fine with all his bullshit if his Ult had a cooldown and his Q didn't mark for 12 years. As is both of those don't punish him for bad decisions or give him far too long to decide. Not to mention how landing that Q on baron/dragon basically forced the other team to tank it for 6 extra seconds or risk the smite fight vs a guy with an execute, and even if they wait he can still wardhop/flash steal if he's that thirsty.

Craft Zeppelin10/31/2016, 10:30:58 AM3 votes

"lets talk about lee sin" wtf is this some sort of jehovas witness new solicitation tactic?

get outta these boards and post real problems

Kaioko10/31/2016, 8:16:19 PM2 votes

Dude.... 90% AD + 90% AD for both parts of his Q, 100% AD for his E and 200 % AD for his R does not equal 580%.... check your math again.

Nameless Voice10/31/2016, 10:05:29 PM2 votes

You forgot two other things:

  • He is one of the best champions at securing/stealing jungle objectives in the game. Only Nunu and Cho'gath are questionably better, but they lack his mobility to jump into the pit, execute-smite, and then (possibly) escape. I'd say he's actually the best jungle objective thief out of all of those, and in the top five in securing objectives for his team.
  • He has one of the most game-changing reposition abilities in the game, yet unlike other champions with such decisive abilities (e.g. Blitzcrank), it is not a skillshot and he has so much mobility that he can easily reposition himself to use it.

So, this generalist jungler who is quite good at everything also has these two very strong areas where he is exceptional.