Boards›Gameplay

"Riot's Breaking my Hueart. Again." - Mordekaiser

Lord Morde·9/18/2015, 3:35:39 PM·44 votes·4,120 views

TL; DR Not a fan of the nerf to Morde's W. Think it should be a maximum of 3 targets at least if they intend to take away METALLIC MASTERY. Also- Morde is a General. I think we've forgotten that. Generals are meant to be followed- not questioned. In a team fight if your Morde pings the ADC- go after the ADC please. Stop focusing the Volibear. Please.

SIDE NOTE: Stop banning Morde. You drive me crazy. Yes you.

video related: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8k9lJPY4f0

I. Morde's Recent History II. MORDE IN LANE then and now III. POSSIBLE WORK AROUNDS V. CONNECT WITH ME

Even Yilang Peng (Doublelift) has jumped on board the Morde wagon with this tweet: https://gyazo.com/8b47985397e8153cbb1d373de7959e72

Riot said it themselves in patch 5.16:

Morde's always been a jack of all trades, but a master of none. (shameless sidenote: If Morde is the 'Master of Metal'- how come he doesn't have a FULL METAL skin? Do you want me to make a Gundam Kai Zah Wallpaper and show you how it's done? Cuz I totally will.)

In fact even Riot has had a difficult time finding a place for him:

I Morde's Recent History:

In patch 5.4 Riot had this to say about the small number of people building Mordekaiser AD: _https://gyazo.com/7fd7c72ed6910463b04c74a243c1a417

  • Basically eliminating AD builds entirely here- even though his Q still scaled well off items like: item 3078 item 3146 item 3071

In patch 5.16 Riot decided to take Morde's wave clear, his single spell burst and his AP ratios and trade them off for the ability to build drastically different and become slightly more 'viable' bot lane: https://gyazo.com/9bfa267049c763b13ea8eda3b54871ba

  • I've said this once, and I will say it again and again till the dead horse is buried- Morde bottom was already strong before the rework. In light of the recent numbers change to Morde's W aura- I'm willing to say that other than the Dragon pet- Old Morde was stronger bottom than our present Hue master. Below is a screenshot of some generic high gold to mid platinum games as Morde and Leona bottom after patch 5.4 when Riot gave Morde a movement speed bonus and the ability to cast double W on both himself and his support. pic related: http://gyazo.com/e56d3237727974ca02a3364a6fdd4b59_

  • Patch 5.16 more or less eliminated solo Morde players. I have spoken to 8 different Morde mains whose elo's range from Gold to mid Diamond. We are all of the opinion that without the armor and magic resist bonuses, as well as the ability to self cast- killed solo Morde.

In patch 5.18 Riot tweaked Morde's W numbers. I'm going to break them down for you.

_COST No cost COOLDOWN 12/11/10/9/8 seconds DAMAGE 140/180/220/260/300 over 4 seconds. AFFLICTION FOREVER At the end of Harvester’s duration (or when Mordekaiser reactivates it), he deals 50/70/90/110/130 damage to all nearby enemies, healing both Mord and his ally for the damage dealt. METALLIC MASTERY Both Harvesters of Sorrow’s DoT and its detonation can overlap, dealing damage twice to enemies hit by Mordekaiser and his ally _

_ COST No Cost ⇒ 25/35/45/55/65 health COOLDOWN 12/11/10/9/8 seconds DAMAGE 140/180/220/260/300 over 4 seconds. REMOVED METALLIC MASTERY: Damage no longer doubles when the zones overlap ZONE RATIO 0.6 ability power ⇒ 0.9 ability power DEACTIVATION DAMAGE 50/70/90/110/130 ⇒ 70/95/120/145/170 HEALING AGAINST MINIONS 33% ⇒ 25% MAXIMUM UNITS DRAINED 3 targets ⇒ 2 targets Can be self-cast even when alone _

So what do these numbers MEAN?

Let's say you play with 26 AP lvl 1 before you buy:

**Morde 5.16: **

  • You W lvl 1 will deal 140 BASE DMG over 4 seconds + 15.6 (0.6% of AP) = 155.6 over 4 seconds for 38.9 DMG a second

Now 5.16 Morde does not reveal the ratio on his W second activation, (the detonation heal) so I will use patch 5.18's [0.307%] ratio which I calculated myself.

  • Deactivation DMG: 50 BASE DMG + 8 DMG [0.3% of AP] = 58 DMG per target; Maximum 3 targets; so possible outcomes:

3 minions = .33 x 58 = 19.14 per minion x 3 = 57.32 HEAL 2 minions + 1 Champion = 19.14 x 2 + 58 = 96.28 HEAL 1 minion + 2 Champions = 19.14 + 116 = 135.14 HEAL [If you have both enemy support and ADC in aura] 3 Champions= 58 x 3 = 174 HEAL [If you're being ganked/roamed on or in a team fight]

**METALLIC MASTERY: **

Bare in mind that before 5.18 Morde's DoT and his deactivation could both stack if your support overlapped Morde's W with you. So the same targets could take:

  • DoT = 311.2 DMG over 4 seconds or** 77.8 DMG a second**

  • Deactivation: (I am not convinced the HEAL stacked, but rather both Morde and his Ally split the heal evenly- but just in case I will include those numbers:)

3 minions = 38.28 per minion x 3 = 114.84 HEAL 2 minions + 1 Champion = 38.28 x 2 + 116 = 192.56 HEAL 1 minion + 2 Champions = 38.28 + 232 = 270.28 HEAL [If you have both enemy support and ADC in aura] 3 Champions = 116 x 3 = 348 HEAL [If you're being ganked/roamed on or in a team fight]

Morde 5.18

Now let's compare those numbers with the new Morde W stats.

Riot kept the same BASE DMG for Morde 4 second DoT, but buffed the AP Ratio from .6 to .923%; pic related: https://gyazo.com/59706ec8e19f9b398616c45ccdbb9db4

Please also remember that Riot reintroduced an HP cost to cast W- beginning at 25 hp rank 1.

  • You W lvl 1 will deal 140 BASE DMG over 4 seconds + 24 (0.9% of AP) = 164 over 4 seconds for 41 DMG a second (This is 1.1 more DMG a second for a total of 4.4 more DMG for W lvl 1)

  • Deactivation DMG: 70 BASE DMG + 8 DMG [0.3% of AP] = 78 DMG per target; Maximum 2 targets; so possible outcomes:

2 minions = .25 x 78 = 19.5 per minion x 2 = 39 HEAL - 25 HP COST = 14 HEAL 1 minion + 1 Champion = 19.5 + 78 = 97.5 HEAL -25 HP COST = 72.5 HEAL 2 Champions = 78 x 2 = 156 HEAL - 25 HP COST = 121 HEAL

Riot nerfed Morde's W in 4 ways:

  • They removed METALLIC MASTERY which allowed Morde and his Ally to stack the DMG (Which also rewarded the support to stick near his Morde)

  • They limited Morde's maximum HEAL to 2 targets instead of 1- so in a team fight Morde can only heal 121 at rank 1 and 356 at maxed rank.

  • They cut Morde's already terrible ability to wave clear in half with the removal of METALLIC MASTERY

  • Bot Morde is incapable of catching intelligent players right off the bat in a fight. That's kind of why Riot gave him the EXP boost bottom so he could outscale in even the worst of match ups if he played wisely. In lane Morde is most likely going to have to rely on the relic charges and a smart support with potentially a healing mechanic like shen or taric or Ali- because he will NO LONGER heal in lane with what was suppsoed to be his built in sustain, W. Morde takes a LOT of harass bottom lane in lvls 1-4. He relied heavily on the healing powers of W until he could get close enough for a fight. In a difficult lane like Caitlyn for example- Morde will NOT be close enough to heal off enemy Champs (100% heal) and will be forced to make due with the 25% heal of not 3 but 2 maximum targets. This results in 14 hp every 12 seconds. Morde takes a great deal more DMG than this in his first few minutes of lane phase attempting to level. This change to W has further alienated him.

  • Bonus 5th reason- everytime they make a new change to Morde I find myself relying more and more on my teammates to do what needs to be done- which often leaves me feeling like this :^(

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZKXSl53Kg4

II MORDE IN LANE then and now

Now I'm going to assume that the new W for Morde prioritizes Champions to minions when Mord'es in the middle of a wave but also deactivating his W around enemy champs. But in the last 4 games I have played as Morde (2 as solo top and 2 bottom) I have noticed a significant nerf to my ability to stay in lane.

Normally in Bot lane you depend on your ally support for sustain as ADC. With Morde bottom you depended on melee supports for several reasons:

  • Melee supports generally have the best engages in terms of sticking power and CC/PEEL

  • Morde's 5.16 W stacked for double sustain and DMG and thus having a support who sat inside the wave with you when W was active meant you had waveclear. Ranged supports tend to squat in the bushes or zone/harass the enemy duo leaving you to cs- however with Morde this cut your power in half, especially in a skirmish.

  • Morde's playstyle encourages beefy playstyle. Generally Ranged Supports are squishy and have kite and heals built into their kits. The Melee support have the tanky engage that Morde needs for his extended fights.

With the change to Morde's W, bot lane Morde will need more sustain supports, like Taric , Shen and Alistar

With solo Morde the main issue was that Morde's flexibility was gone. If Morde was in a melee lane- it was easy to max Mord's old Q because it hit like a truck in single target situations. Morde's W was also really useful for super aggro tops like Riven , LeeSin and Pantheon. This was because Morde's old W granted him not only AOE DMG over SIX seconds instead of four, but also granted him ARMOR and MAGIC RESIST which his shield scaled well with.

New Q is only effective in solo lane if he's opponent is a little negligent and the Morde uses the first and or second procs on minions before surprising the foe with the third while they are still in range.

5.16 W was literally something you wouldn't take until lvl 7 unless you knew to expect your jungler top often. (since you could no longer self cast)

However 5.18 W is now castable- but it only grants you a negligent heal.

Rank 1 in lane Morde's W will heal him for anywhere between 14 and 72.5 HP after you apply his HP cost and assume you can hit more than 1 target, a champ included. It does not deal DMG in an AOE- so this means that solo Morde still does not have the wave clear he needs to be viable solo lane. Any player with a good head will reset the lane by shoving it until they get it to push against their towers, and then they will simply freeze lane and wait for their Jungler to come gank Morde.

Literally what happened in my last game: https://gyazo.com/56a32f9519a5dea9510ecab3323fe760

Teemo : But Morde, why didn't you rush item 3078 ?

Well for one I'm being camped, but for two and most importantly- It's really important to remember what we know about Morde right now:

  • Morde has no CC or escapes or real sustain in a solo lane at this time. So if he does not build tanky he will die quickly if CC'd.

  • Morde has some MASSIVE DMG in his kit right now. Even in the solo lane where his W does almost nothing. If Morde can survive long enough to deal that DMG then he can win the fights.

  • Morde lacks waveclear and that's a really big problem as last hitting for a champ that is paying HP for his spells and usually taking harass the entire time he's in lane (esp solo) is very difficult. Old Morde players expressed difficulty farming in lanes where they maxed Q or E in duo lanes- but found they were able to secure most of the cs in lanes where they maxed W. However in solo lanes maxing W does little to no DMG and provides less waveclear that the now diseased E we all used to love.

  • It's worth noting that even without your W, Morde can still make meaningful plays if he understand what his opponents can do and posotions himself and spreads out his spells properly to get the most value out of each (like you do with sheen procs)

Watch how this Morde player handles a Thresh and a Lulu, (both with full HP versus him with 30%) with only his Q and E and studder step mechanics:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rBzUPomY8c

III. POSSIBLE WORK AROUNDS:

I have 2 ideas that I have not yet been able to test out fully and unless my upcoming premade 5's games yield amazing viral results- I doubt they'll ever become viable in solo que; but nonetheless I have this to offer:

DUO JUNGLE MORDE with a NUNU- Morde's W grants ms speed to any aura'd unit running toward the other. Nunu E slows. Morde's Q hits like a truck the third time and Nunu's bloodboil synergizes hugely. With a tanky engage top and bot and an ap burst/engage mid, Nunu and Morde can just bully the enemy jungler all day and make really good ganks bottom when the enemy overextends.

BOT MORDE WITH TWO SUPPORTS: I am thinking Leona and Blitz would be the best fit here. Leona would take summoner 11 since she has a gap close- but if you're worried about the Jungler outlvling the support it's reasonable for Morde who can keep up with and surpass the enemy Jungler because of his solo lane exp passive to take summoner 11 instead. The only real issue that arises here is that the double relic you normally take is not as good because your second relic would be sending the slain minions to you or the other support at a 50% chance. It's not a major issue but it does take away from your lvl increase. The benefits of this strategy are that the enemy bot lane can be hard zoned and heavily pressured at multiple angles and it renders bot lane virtually ungankable for the enemy jungler. The major drawback is that your top and mid cannot tilt or lose their lanes badly before Morde snowballs bottom. This lane has amazing roam potential as well. It's something you pick when you want to guarantee Morde gets farmed and when the enemy bot lane tries to counter pick. (Bard Karma Caitlyn TahmKench Kalista Janna are all difficult lanes to verse)

**APPEAL TO RIOT: **

Honestly guys, I miss my old Morde. I love Dragon, I love the longer ghost timers, love that you're trying to encourage new ideas and there's NOTHING wrong with that. But so far this latest direction with Morde has shown me we're going the wrong way with Morde. With the removal of METALLIC MASTERY- you've taken away the reward factor Melee Supports and Morde players felt when they played their lane correctly. Which yes, even now is very difficult to do. I have to explain to 8 out of every 10 solo que supports to stop sitting in the bush and to stack with me (no longer an issue now- but the DMG cut has gimped Morde in all lanes now.)

I miss the ability to make amazing plays MYSELF. I miss being rewarded for my own superior mechanics. Not that I'ma GOD or anything- but I DID have my moments with old school Morde:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMfPX0lNLC8

Teemo : "What item paths have you found most useful with reworked Morde?"

BOT MORDE:

item 3302 < item 1028 item 1036 < item 1011 item 3053 < item 3044 OR item 1011 < item 3057 OR item 1058 <item 3116 OR item 3078 and ofc you'll get boots 1 and 2 in there somewhere. Sometimes if you need to be extra tanky and need more DMG, item 3748 can be really good.

Video showing the benefits of a sterak's rush: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OyuqRUaEac

SOLO MORDE:

I won't pretend to have an extensive amount of experience with solo Morde because everytime I attempt this- I either get camped hard, lose the lane because the match up is poor or stomp really hard because it's easy. I need more games in this lane to know for sure- but I speculate that a item 1036 or item 1074 or item 1001 start is decent. One might even try old school item 1006 item 1006 and rush a item 3077 into item 3074 or item 3748.

V. Social Media/Stream: Cuz why the hell not?

If you're a Morde main- come brofist me on live stream. If you like free skins- I give away $100-$200 in skin every month.

So long story short- you've upvoted my thread, you've shared it, you even bumped it like the BRO/Grill you are. If you'll tune in sometime and decide if I'm worthy of a follow I'd really appreciate it :)

https://www.twitch.tv/thekingofelohell https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-King-of-Elohell/820121808077262 https://twitter.com/KingofEloHell https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC59w0Pb3YMcd29fYaVmoTxA

BONUS Videos that I couldn't find a place for in the post above and it's purpose- but if you made it this far you deserve a laugh or two:

Flashless Baron steal with Morde:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1925fDd8s64

Trust exercises in low elo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLR7iO6xJcE

To the League Community,

Thankyou for your time,

-The King, here to serve.

39 Comments

Big Lincoln9/18/2015, 3:53:21 PM23 votes

I still stand by him needing another rework

His power curve seems inverse to what most Mordekaiser players wanted -- someone with a weak ish early game who scales really hard.

The damage is there, but it's all tied up in one ability most of the time, and while his Q is a very fair ability on its own, I don't think the rest of his kit should suffer for it.

Malicious Metal9/18/2015, 6:45:07 PM16 votes

I feel like a Wrestler in a two on two match, once my Mordekaiser thread's filled and everything's been said you jump in and take over.^w^

On the topic though; I've been playing Mordekaiser non-stop ever since I started league some time in season three and I've been playing a lot with the reworked Mordekaiser to try and get him to work in solo lanes as well as duo. It doesn't work since his entire balance's dictated by his gimped W, the bloody passive and the dragon clone. So I knew from the moment I saw the bp notes that Mordekaiser would once again become utter trash; As you've mentioned he relied on pushing brutally, building up shield and shrugging off poke, accumulating a massive experience lead. ->This isn't possible anymore due to the nerfed heal and especially the overlapping damage being removed. Riot basically shot themselves in the foot by effectively eliminating what made him good in the first place. His shield gain is weaker, his sustain doesn't help him at all in some scenarios and he can't do his job properly anymore.

He relies on having disgustingly high base numbers and on the unfair and tbh really unhealthy W mechanic to do well in Bot lane. Now I feel like I'm handicapping my team whenever I go bot with him since he requires SOOOOO much effort to pull of, making me question ever playing Morde again, which I thought wouldn't happen before armageddon.

And yet here we are, Riot having effectively proven that they can't balance Mordekaiser with his current kit and condemning him to a state of limbo. Hovering around OP and UP and not having any chance at becoming a healthy champion.

Heck, the common consensus is that old Morde had his flaws but he had more counterplay and was less Unhealthy, which completely invalidates their reasoning behind making him a duo laner when in fact he manages to make the game a living hell for TWO people instead of one in solo lanes. And what adds insult to injury is him having been able to duo before, with better results to boot, in a world where he was able to do things on his OWN.

The More I think about it the more I start to think that the rework was a poor excuse to band-aid fix him and what seemed to be one massive failure. Morde needs A LOT of tweaks, heck maybe even a second REWORK/RELAUNCH in order to truly live up to the Mantle of Master of Metal and become a healthy, balanced, interesting champion with unique themes and identity. league's very own version of Sauron!

Thank you for laying this out for all of us to see, we Mordekaiser Mains should not let our voices be unheard and our call to arms be unanswered. HE WILL NOT BE LEFT IN THE DUST. We shall not allow this!

~M.M

The Elder Noob9/18/2015, 4:28:40 PM7 votes

THIS IS SAD. ALL OF YOU ARE SAD. WHEN IM A DARK LORD. YOU FOLLOW ME. UGH.

^lold

ChaosThief9/18/2015, 9:22:34 PM3 votes

3rd link of gyazo has an extra underscore at the end, you may want to trim that off.

Also, I played morde a bunch pre-rework, found it fun considering I was taking half the map and killed any person who went for me (I got lucky in a 1v4 and got the TF[who was going AD top, for some reason] as the clone, killed all 4)

Post rework... He's fine, I suppose, but compared to the old mordekaiser I would kind of toss him aside if it were a one on one. Not sure why they are so stubborn and won't just put back the DoT of the W.

Count Zubat9/18/2015, 8:55:41 PM3 votes

Pls, don't show me all those videos of old Morde, it makes me nearly cry :(

I never trully was a Morde main, but he was a champion that I picked from time to time to have fun. I always found using Morde fun, his mechanics were just so simple, and yet so unique and complex. I would just think what to play, and then, suddenly, I would think: "I wanna burst with Mordekaiser today. I wanna push the lane, destroy minion waves with E-Q and make enemy carry my carry. I want to wait in bush for unsuspecting enemies, burst them down with R-E-Q, and then read their moanings about how Morde is broken." Unfortunately, I will never again experience that ;( While at first, I was quite optimistic about the rework, after few matches, I saw what was wrong: literally everything. But now... Rito won't revert the rework, they're too proud to do such a thing, by doing so, they would admit that they failed. Waiting for another rework? Maybe we will get it, I don't know... in season 7, pre-season 8? But for now, I think I won't play Morde anymore, I won't use my Pentakill skin anymore. He went from funny champ I liked to pick from time to time to something that is just plain disgusting. Goodbye Morde. In my heart, you will always remain numero uno.

KnightOfEloHell9/18/2015, 9:58:25 PM3 votes

I have a friend of mine who made a board about potential ideas for Morde's kit. Here it is:

"idea for polishing his current kit:

Q: FEAR THE MACE: slightly reduce 3rd hit damage, but allow half of the total 3rd q damage done to 2 closest surrounding units. When enemies are near, it prioritizes enemy champions before minons. Possibly up health cost a bit.

W: MISERY LOVES COMPANY: Allow self cast do deal AoE damage when activated (buff w self cast), keep the extra armor, speed and current heal. When cast on an ally, w does half the damage compared to self cast, but when overlapping with an ally, does double and a half damage of the reduced damage done from the ally cast.

E: AFFLICTION, FOREVER: More damage, LESS shield, hits all units in the E, not 2. Keep current range.

R: HUEHUEHUE: Slightly buff the over time damage so it's not completly negated by a potion.

Passive: No shield degeneration.

Opinions?"

Personally, I think even if just the w was like what he said, it would be amazing for any lane, as well as jungle. Although a buffed E damage would also be nice.

Best Kat EU9/19/2015, 12:08:25 AM2 votes

Mordekaiser es numero uno

killd0zer9/18/2015, 5:02:18 PM2 votes

I'm willing to say that other than the Dragon pet- Old Morde was stronger bottom than our present Hue master.

This bias is so strong and incorrect i think u need a shrink

Lord Morde9/21/2015, 6:31:49 AM1 votes

bump

Rinky Dinky9/19/2015, 3:40:48 PM1 votes

http://champion.gg/champion/Mordekaiser/ADC

Tortunga9/19/2015, 12:18:34 PM1 votes

SIDE NOTE: Stop banning Morde. You drive me crazy. Yes you.

He is banned for a reason; Even if he isnt that strong as some people say, his whole kit is just toxic with elements that has 0 counterplay in a duo lane. He is a viable Yorick really (and Yorick is according to Riot themselves, one of the most unfun champions to play against), with his bonus XP, extremely beefiness from level 1, and his stupid pet drake.

His passive + heal of Harvester of Sorrow + duo relic shield makes it almost impossible to force a Mordekaiser, a melee champion, out of lane even with the most damaging harassers. Yes Mordekaiser needs some extra defences if he wants to be viable in bot lane, but its just to much now.

His xp passive is just broken; he 'wins' lane just by being there; he gets ahead level wise. Just to show how broken it is I made a small calculation: 2400 xp needed for level 6; a normal duo lane gets 65.2% of the minion xp, Mordekaiser gets full. This means if both enemy bot lanes got the same amount of xp Mordekiaser can be level 6, while the rest is still level 4 (2400*0.652=1564, 1700 xp needed for level 5). And this has 0 counterplay at all; its a broken passive and should have never implanted

His stupid pet drake; ow great our team already lost the drake, but while otherwise all their team members get a small extra buff, with a mordekaiser you have to fight a freaking large beefy drake too. It might be fun to play with your ghost drake, but playing against it is just frustrating (pet drake tanking the turret while your getting dived for example) and has 0 counterplay.

This combined with his high damage just makes him, in my opinion, toxic to play against; you cant harass him out of lane because of his beefiness and sustain, you will always be lower level if not far ahead, and if you lose control of Bot you have to fight a dragon... This combined with the inability to really fight an hard engage sup+ Morde duo lane (his high damage will destroy you), and the only thing you can hope for is a passive farm lane. So much fun...

So yeah I don't really care if Morde isn't that strong as people say, his kit is just toxic to play against and that's to me (and to a lot of others) enough reason to keep him perma banned.

Stars Shaper9/19/2015, 2:05:57 PM1 votes

I'm sad that 10 out of 10 supports rushed away from Team Builder as soon as they noticed that I was with Mordekaiser botlane...

Dr Poro9/18/2015, 6:01:17 PM1 votes

What? His winrate is now barely higher than the second highest ADC winrate? Unacceptable! He must have 60+% winrate to be viable!

  • Mordemains
Koldheartedjsp9/19/2015, 8:01:21 AM1 votes

it just sucks because i have 0 desire to play morde in his current state. Used to love me some morde

now... idk. Haven't played him and have 0 desire to

Ralanr9/18/2015, 4:59:12 PM1 votes

Pantheon's one second stun is enough to consider him hard CC?