%Health True Damage

Confron7a7ion7·7/22/2015, 6:45:38 PM·55 votes·16,696 views

Can we not give champs %health true damage. I don't mind %health physical or magical. I don't mind flat true damage. You can build against all of those with resistances or health respectively. But there is no way to build against %health true damage. From my knowledge the only champs with this are and soon but I really don't want to see any more of this. I don't like it on the champs that we are having it on. I personally think it would be better to convert these 2 champs to %health physical damage and bump up the ratios. They still get to be powerful but this allows people to mitigate them.

75 Comments

RetroRage967/22/2015, 6:48:08 PM25 votes

As a Sion player, I agree.

Fuck you Vayne.

67chrome7/22/2015, 7:17:32 PM13 votes

But there is no way to build against %health true damage.

LoL is a game with strategy elements though: not being able to use the same tactic for everything (building defense in this case) is part of what forces players to deal with situations intelligently over resorting to just trying to muscle your way through every problem with the same mindset.

There are plenty of cases where other strategies are rendered useless or sub-optimal due to game mechanics as well. Knockups, Knockbacks, Pulls, Flings, and Slowing fields are completely unaffected by Tenacity/QSS/Cleanse. Mobility cannot be used to evade a wide range of point-click skills. You cannot damage opponents that are invulnerable, in stasis, reviving with GA. Wind Wall stops projectiles. 100% dodge chance evades 100% of auto-attack damage. Spell-shields prevent insta-gib 100%-->0% combos. Mobility skills can prevent certain champions from ever really overextending. Range can be completely negated and rendered useless by mobility in a 1v1.

Stuff like this is what leads to dynamic game-play, where strategies and tactics must change to adapt to what's going on - rather than having a cemented meta play-style that's always the best.

Also - it's not like Fiora's new ult damage lacks counter-play. She needs to dance around her target, auto-attacking them from 4 specific angels in melee range.

Do you know how difficult that is? In a 1v1 that seems difficult if the other person notices what's going on with the big flashing targets. In a team fight? You're melee-range Draaaaven with telegraphed points in significantly easier locations to take advantage of.

I mean - really think about what Fiora has to go through to apply that %max HP true damage. Almost any other stratagy besides building defense is going to be able to prevent her from applying it: including listing lazily to the left.

Erockandroll7/22/2015, 6:51:09 PM11 votes

Riot had commented on this before. They felt that the %HP true damage was necessary, as a lever to allow her to fight against tankier targets, while not becoming oppressive against unarmored targets. They also commented that, with how her passive works, the damage can always be avoided through good positioning, even if it can't be mitigated.

Seems less oppressive than Vayne's %HP true damage, Scaling ridiculously with Attack speed.

IcyPepper7/22/2015, 7:42:08 PM11 votes

But there is no way to build against %health true damage.

Well, from what I heard, Riot doesn't want you to. They want tanks to be hurt more by it than squishies (since the scaling would be higher if it was physical/magical, and that means more damage done to squishies. Squishies just aren't going to build as much defenses).

Which... doesn't make sense on some champions. Vayne, I can get. Tank shredder. Fiora? Uh... isn't she supposed to be a duelist/assassin-ish? Flat true damage would make more sense, not %hp.

O Fallen Scholar7/22/2015, 6:54:03 PM6 votes

Fiora's ult only deals % true damage. And that damage can be mitigated by POSITIONING urself. You're pro or a noob, that's life.

TheVishual7/22/2015, 6:54:17 PM5 votes

{quoted}

Can we not give champs %health true damage. I don't mind %health physical or magical. I don't mind flat true damage. You can build against all of those with resistances or health respectively. But there is no way to build against %health true damage. From my knowledge the only champs with this are and soon but I really don't want to see any more of this. I don't like it on the champs that we are having it on. I personally think it would be better to convert these 2 champs to %health physical damage and bump up the rations. They still get to be powerful but this allows people to mitigate them.

If you couldn't tell already Riot hates using creativity and logic when it comes to their balancing decisions.

It's much easier to just slap a % damage on every champ and shit out generic abilities.

YossarianSensei7/23/2015, 1:36:26 AM4 votes

Idk why not being able to itemize against %maxHP True dmg is even a bad thing

The mechanic is there to counter tanks in the first place - it's balanced around targets having a fair amount of Armor. If you keep stacking Armor beyond the amount you're expected to have, then True dmg gives a lot of value. Under normal circumstances, %HP True dmg is just decent value.

sealust7/23/2015, 12:55:00 AM4 votes

This, absolutely this. I don't care if she needs skill to master, max % health true damage should not be a thing, period.

Slamurai Jack7/24/2015, 8:06:59 AM4 votes

%Max health true damage is an interesting balancing mechanic that most people don't seem to understand. People keep complaining that it's impossible to itemize against when that is exactly the reason it's in the game in the first place. The whole reason Vayne has %max health true damage is so you can't just zone her out of teamfights forever with 1 tanky person and then ignore her. Vayne would be a really shit champion if you could just itemize her out of the game. By giving her this mechanic, Riot incentivizes her to stay in combat as long as possible without switching targets without caring too much about which target she hits. It forces her into a certain playstyle and creates a unique identity for the champion. If Vayne doesn't have %Max HP true damage, there is literally no reason to play her because the only reason she see's play now is because she doesn't really care who she hits in a fight and you can't simply stack 500 armor and sit on her face.

AMYS GRAVE7/22/2015, 8:18:40 PM3 votes

%Health True Damage isn't the problem, its % MAX health true damage. If it is % missing or % current health true damage then you know you can fight them at full health or low health respectively and gives windows of relative strength and weakness.

O Fallen Scholar7/23/2015, 8:41:50 AM3 votes

What's wrong with her having % true damage? She is squishy after all and relies hitting vital spots if she ever wants to kill someone. And why did I get downvoted when I said that her passive has counter play? It fucking has. Get real.

After all she hasn't been released yet. Numbers can be always tuned.

AwesomeChad7/23/2015, 8:47:37 AM2 votes

I personally think its fine on vayne but absolutely an abomination on fiora and any future champion. Heres my argument

In defense of Vayne:

Its one of the key features on vayne as a ADC
Vayne is a single target adc that heavily relies on her autoattack to deal any dmg.
She requires 3 autoattacks to apply one instance of this true damage
Shes heavily reliant on items to do more dmg
She builds adc items so shes very squishy and easy to kill

Against the idea of having it on any other champion: True % hp dmg is a toxic element to have multiple instances of. Riot is in pursuit of making every champion viable. This means that certain picks should counter others, leading to a back-and-forth environment encouraging players to play more diverse champions. If we encourage the element of true damage, eventually we lead ourselves into the situation where certain champions get autolocked blindly. It doesn't matter what the enemy picks; these champions will outperform all others and this is detrimental to champion diversity.

Messaiga7/23/2015, 8:50:21 PM2 votes

There is a design reason for it on Fiora. Don't know why Vayne still has this, though. The reason Fiora has it is that they want her to be able to duel (1v1) anybody reasonably, whether they or tanky or squishy. If it were physical damage, the numbers would have to be higher (which means there would be a bigger disparity between the damage she deals to squishy targets and tanks). They want to ensure she cannot just nuke champions that don't have armor like she can right now. She'll still probably be better at killing squishier targets than full-tanks, but she will still take a reasonable time to do so.

Karlyr7/26/2015, 5:37:18 PM2 votes

Vayne and Fiora both have a hard time if being focussed down. (And are also "easy" to focus down)

Vayne has a really short range for an adc and can be shutdown straight from the lane. Fiora WILL be a melee character that has to run around you to proc these stats during a team fight.

% True Damage is not really a "necessary" thing imo. But... you have to give the means to some characters to deal with the Mundos and Volibear of this world.

The best way to deal with a Vayne is to pick lockdown/assassin champions. (Vi, Hecarim, Nocturne (still needs a buff though), Sejuani, Zed, Warwick, Rengar, Nautilus, Nasus (his slow), Kassadin, etc).

For Fiora... Just wait to see what she's like in game before complainning about her being broken. She's not even out yet.

BlackInkX27/23/2015, 5:29:06 AM2 votes

I am a Vayne hater . Yes why are we getting punished for building hp and survival items to stop the rest of her team from killing us . I dont have a problem with huge amounts of true damage like darius' and cho gath's I can build hp and hope for the best but why exactly the more defences I build in order to survive the easier it is for these champions to kill me .

Why is the whole match turning into a race against time to stop the forbidden character from buying one or two items to win the game . Am I still playing league or is this the Catch the VaYNE game in which one team tries to murder vayne and the other sacrifices its members to let her live and carry them killing everyone while she is running away ?

NullDragon7/22/2015, 9:05:19 PM2 votes

%max health physical damage blows up squishy targets, and is weak vs. tanks

%max health true damage is good vs. squishy targets AND tanks.

Vayne will be even worse to play against if she has physical damage.

Jari7/23/2015, 4:06:27 AM1 votes

Going to say this, because I find it funny. Show me how many threads there were before Sated Devourer that said we need to gut Vayne for broken % true damage. Do it. Please. I'd love to read them, because I never saw them. Second item 3931 became a thing you all screamed about Vayne. It's the item and the fact her counter's aren't as strong as before, not her herself.

LordKentravyon8/11/2015, 8:03:11 PM1 votes

In all honesty, between being melee, with limited (but strong) defensive capabilities coupled with having to AA specific spaces (Which can also be hard to see in a clustered team fight with skills flying everywhere) I don't mind the mechanic on her. In a team fight its difficult but rewarding, in a 1v1 well if your complaining about loosing a 1v1 to the grand duelist....

Vayne on the other hand, who can continuously apply it to one target from relatively safety (from range, her own abilities, and ally peel) Although I'm not saying ti takes no skill to play them, there isn't the same level of difficulty to apply the damage it's just "hit the target 3 times"