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@Morello - Can we meaningfully nerf Lee Sin yet? Or are we going to just ignore him once again?

GhostStalker·10/28/2014, 11:03:37 PM·93 votes·9,878 views

I don't understand why you're changing so many champions around, but the one who needs it the most is Lee Sin.I can forgive you for not doing anything major because worlds was coming up. But now is the time. And I cannot forgive you anymore if you keep (from my point of view) ignoring the nerfs that needs to happen to him.

From a jungling perspective, Lee Sin is perfect. He has power at the right times, and transitions nicely into the game even if he flops early. He sustains well. Clears well. Ganks really well. Duels well. Invades well. Plus more.

What you ultimately need to do is remove something from Lee Sin that is currently his strength, and turn it into his weakness. I know this opinion maybe unpopular because anything that dares touch Lee Sin gets shat on, but you really need to take heed, and do something. It's not enough to buff other junglers. You have to nerf the Perfect Lee Sin.

If you don't, then any change from here on out that you ever will do will be marred by what you have refused to do with Lee Sin.

180 Comments

FalconPawwwwnch10/28/2014, 11:22:10 PM25 votes

You make it sound like wardhopping is a fundamental problem when it has nothing to do with it. Wardhopping is fine when there's tradeoffs. Lee Sin's problem isn't ward hopping, it's that he doesn't lose anything for ward hopping.

Jax and Katarina both have to use a damage CD in order to be mobile, so if they ward hop to get close to you they lose a lot of trading damage potential not to mention it's their only escape. Not to mention Jax's costs mana also, and the fact that Jax needs a ton of help as it is to even be competitive

Lee Sin's W for ward hopping doesn't make him lose anything. He still gets the lifesteal/spellvamp from it and he can use his Q to get even closer, not to mention he can use his Q and R to escape also

GhostStalker10/28/2014, 11:07:52 PM13 votes

Also. I think you're going to have to make some tough calls when it comes to this champion. There's a couple of decisions that you guys made regarding Lee Sin that are going to come to bite you in the ass, when you should of made the opposite choice.

Ward-Hoping being one of them. You should NEVER of let this champion keep ward hoping. With the introduction of Sight-stones and Trinket Wards, it makes it too easy for Lee Sin to engage/escape.

I think this is a primary contributor to Lee Sin's ridiculousness. And I just dont understand why you guys don't see that.

It's like this champion has the entirety of Riot's staffed polarized. I don't get it.

Noraver10/29/2014, 6:43:15 PM8 votes

Fun Fact: Lee Sin's Sonic Wave has a 180% Bonus AD Ratio, deals 340 damage, and +8% of the target's missing HP. His Ultimate has a 200% bonus AD Ratio and 600 damage. His Cripple has a 100% bonus AD ratio and 200 damage.

Lee has 100 bonus AD? Enjoy 250 damage (Insert two autos here), +800 damage, +250 damage, +8% of your missing HP. I'm fine with him being able to do what he does (Ward hopping, etc). I'm not fine with him being able to three-shot people, and THEN ward hopping away. Lee needs an increased cooldown on his Q if he misses, and a flat increased cooldown on his ultimate (60 seconds?), or some actual damage nerfs.

They keep removing parts of his kit to 'make him weaker' (Cripple slow, armor/MR removal, etc), but it's his DAMAGE that's making him so strong early game. Ever seen another jungler kill Lee on an invasion? Neither have I.

GhostStalker10/30/2014, 12:04:23 AM8 votes

didnt expect this thread to grow like it did, heh. Guess people are still angry riot didnt nerf lee when they should of.

mO4fTzH2so10/29/2014, 6:10:50 AM7 votes

Base damages and scalings of similar champions burst combos: Jarvan: 940 + 2.7 bonus AD Talon: 1035 + 4.6 bonus AD Zed: 800 + 3 bonus AD + 1 total AD Rengar: 1050 + 0.7 bonus AD + 1.2 total AD Graves: 1170 + 2.94 bonus AD

And then... Lee Sin: 1140 +4.8 bonus AD

More base damage and higher scaling than Talon. Okay Riot.

TakoBell10/30/2014, 9:32:52 AM7 votes

Fun fact : Lee Sin has the highest base health regen of any champion at level 1. Good thing too, he could never survive his weak early game without it.

Fun Fact 2 : At level 18 he still has the 10th highest health regen.

#nerf Ree Gin

LeeSin item 1006 summoner 7 LeeSin item 3083 item 3065 LeeSin item 2049

darkdill10/28/2014, 11:07:54 PM7 votes

If there's any nerf I'd give him, it'd be to cap the damage on Resonating Strike rather than have it deal damage based on his target's missing health. Right now, that % of missing health is too anti-tank, similar to what Kha'Zix used to have. Having it more like Nidalee's Takedown (with a damage cap) would still keep Lee effective against squishies, but weaken his damage against high-health opponents.

IAmNeverViable10/28/2014, 11:27:12 PM7 votes

personally waiting for the new jungle changes in season 5. It's too quick to call for nerf on lee sin when we don't even know the jungler meta in season 5 yet.

BakedLotion10/29/2014, 2:08:17 AM7 votes

They need to nerf his mobility and ult damage. His ult is one of the highest base damage, and AD scaling spells in the game all while having insane utility. Also, why the hell does he even need like 50 escapes? His q and ult is enough to get away with almost anything

OwlMechanic10/30/2014, 1:50:15 AM6 votes

Why not just straight up remove ward hopping from every champ period? It smells like a gimmick that got left in the game near the start (it is NOT intuitive, and clearly not the intended use of wards) and it should have been dealt with back when the game was young.

It's ridiculous that every champ that can ward hop is sitting on a totally 100% balanced ability, that is unbalanced by the fact that it loses its offensive/defensive counterplay and teamwork aspect the second it becomes a free flash with a ward.

To make it simple take out what never should have been. Fixed.

Sir ArmaMalum10/28/2014, 11:39:54 PM5 votes

Out of curiosity, have any of you guys seen this thread of previous Lee Sin change attempts about 7 months ago?