What cost do energy/resouceless mids pay??

Gaminon·1/31/2015, 3:26:44 PM·5 votes·1,599 views

Cause seriously, it doesn't seem like there is one. Energy/resourceless champs aren't gated by longer than average cooldowns. They don't do less damage. I don't get it. What price do they pay that balances them?

And the problem is even worse with AD champs, since their natural builds allow them to lifesteal back huge amounts of health easily. Infinite sustain seems like it should come with some drawbacks.

I'm actually not completely against all the mana changes that have been made. Getting rid of Athene's, which allowed you to basically forget about mana, is probably a good thing if it means that players will need to practice good mana management. Unless resourceless and energy champs have to pay SOMETHING for their infinite sustain/harass, though, it seems like instituting limitations on mana champs will just leave a whole class of champs getting pushed around.

20 Comments

Tilomentry1/31/2015, 4:28:37 PM3 votes

Ideally, energy users are suppose to be able to avoid attrition in lane at the cost of being able to spam skills in team fights later in the game. Of course Shen seems to be the only one who follows this paradigm and Kennen to a lesser extent i think.

Kowe The Ewok1/31/2015, 3:29:58 PM2 votes

None.

SEKAI1/31/2015, 4:17:19 PM1 votes

They do pay, but it's mostly negative value tho.

Espy Psyche1/31/2015, 4:39:08 PM1 votes

They pay the cost of either having to waste gold on useless stats, or not being able to buy certain items. Items like Archangel's Staff, Rod of Ages, Frozen Heart, and Iceborn Gauntlet are extremely powerful, but they're a lot of gold wasted for champions that don't benefit from the mana (and in the case of Archangel, it's entirely useless without mana).

And this brings a new balance philosophy to manaless champs. Either: (and note that when I say "mana" I include mana regen)

Prohibit item purchases that have mana for manaless champs, like how Hunter's Machete is prohibited if not carrying Smite (not recommended).
Add a "mana tax" to energy champs if they buy items that have mana (every mana item reduces your damage dealt by 2% and increases your damage taken by 2% if your champion does not utilize mana)
Make mana more prevalent in the item store, appearing on more items, and keep the number of manaless items low.

I don't recommend 1) because of one particular champion -- Shyvana -- and the fact that Iceborn Gauntlet, even with its high cost and wasted stats, is still quite useful on her.

would sadly only punish Bronze players for not knowing proper builds. It wouldn't nerf anyone because the item choices are available for manaless champions, even AP ones. But if we add 3) to that, it could be useful. Wanna build that QSS to counter Malzahar? Too bad, you're a manaless Zed, and you're gonna do reduced damage and take more damage if you build it because we decided to make it build from Null-Mantle and Sapphire Crystal. Wanna build that Zhonya's as a Katarina? Too bad, we added mana to it and now you're gonna hit less and take more. Do you like that Gunblade as Akali? Well good luck assassinating anyone with it, because you take more damage and deal less.

Maybe for clarity (because I know this would be an invisible value and frustrate new players), if a manaless champion tries to buy a mana item in the store, ask for a confirmation. "WARNING! This item has mana! As a champion that does not use mana, you will deal 2% less damage and take 2% more damage if you have this item. Do you wish to purchase this item?"

Kitten of Evil1/31/2015, 7:16:08 PM1 votes

Most significantly, not a single energy champ has to pay to use their ultimate. Run out of energy because you just blew your whole QWE combo? No problem! Have a free ultimate. Someone like Velkoz or Malzahar or Lux has to hold back enough of their resource to make sure they can finish the enemy at level 6. That's a limitation no energy user has to consider.

Jaegybomb1/31/2015, 10:39:23 PM1 votes

Energy

Downrun1/31/2015, 11:33:34 PM1 votes

"Resourceless champions are gates by high cooldowns."

Yasuo Riven Katarina lol

They're a few who are though.

Garen Shyvana

Konidias2/19/2015, 12:28:59 AM1 votes

The problem is that most of the energy based champs are assassins, and all they need is one wombo combo to delete a person... So how exactly is that fair?

They dominate laning phase because they don't need to buy mana pots... ever. Even if a mana based champ has 10000 mana, eventually it runs out and doesn't regen quickly enough.

But with energy based champs, they never permanently run out of energy... They just wait a moment and their skills are back up again. It's just one more thing they don't have to think about.

Mana based champ preparing to attack:

How much mana do I have left? Do I have pots? How many more times can I use this skill before I have to back? Are my skills off cooldown? Okay I can attack.

Energy based champ preparing to attack:

Are my skills off cooldown? Yes? HERPDERPWOMBOCOMBOATTACKKKKK

Yay a kill! OH LOOK ALL MY SKILLS COOLDOWNS ARE RESET! HERPDERPWOMBOCOMBOATTACKAGAIN!!!

ANOTHER kill! OH LOOK MY COOLDOWNS GOT RESET AGAIN! HERPEAREPDERAPRAPERPPERPPPP ROLLS FACE ON KEYBOARD FOR PENTA

Texicant1/31/2015, 3:31:33 PM1 votes

I've wondered that too. I never really noticed any drawbacks for kat or garen (no resource champ)

Zac, Mundo and Vlad least have HP cost so there is something to make players wary about haphazardly spamming abilities. Energy champions for the most part don't have a problem with resources since by the time cool-downs are done they usually full up again. Does seem out of place compared to all the champions dependent on mana