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Actual opinion? Mages in bot lane.

Pumpedhero·2/27/2020, 1:53:40 PM·1 votes·2,517 views

So, I haven't made a post in awhile, But I really wanna know the opinions of people here. I would really love to know the opinions of people interms of Mages in bot lane, Personally I think its the worst most unbalanced thing in the game due to the lack of counter play, and the pure damage they have being able to out dps both the adc and support at the same time. Not counting the Insane range, most mages not using much mana, being safe, getting gold for poke etc.. I feel like mages are part of the biggest problem that makes bot absolutely dogshit this season/last season. Not really much of a rant, more of asking what people think of it, how it could be nerfed, why its justified to be played bot etc.. Personally I Always prefered the S6/S7 adc meta where ADCs were the main part of bot, and supports were mostly just.. a support.. where as now, its more of the supports dueling / poking while adcs farm until somebody misplays or oversteps. But that ontop of say, Xerath, Velkoz, Zyra, Heimer, Brand, Fiddle, Lux, Morgana (Havent even included the supports that do their job as a support too well, insanely well).. Where their poke is insanely strong / punish is instant death. Like I miss when supports were literally just assistants in bot lane and adc. I really wish we could go back to when ADCs had a unique play style for their role, and each adc had its own unique playstyle instead of all of them being sheeped currently into 1-2 playstyles.

13 Comments

Bugog2/27/2020, 4:02:09 PM3 votes

I'm generally fine with champions playing in various lanes, and mages are fine bot lane. As long as they don't have a grossly disproportionate win rate it's fun to have the meta shaken up now and again.

Voluug132/27/2020, 3:44:29 PM2 votes

Mages in botlane arent even strong right now. Far from it. The ''strongest'' support mages right are Brand and Zyra, both with a 49% winrate and a 3% pickrate. Even Morgana is in the gutters with a 47% winrate.

Simply put OP, I dont know what the fuck are you talking about.

Galiö2/27/2020, 2:40:25 PM2 votes

I like mages in bot lane.

Marksmen are generally one dimensional and unintercative most of the game.

Mages offer just as much damage usually, better epic monster control, can deal equal or more damage to turrets, can buy a stopwatch path item if needed earlier than marksmen and spike earlier in terms of power.

Yes a marksmen can do more DPS consistantly once hey hit 4 items, but mages typically need only one or two rotations of spells and dont have to wait until lategame/endgame to be useful.

Dorans Pants2/27/2020, 6:50:35 PM1 votes

{quoted}

"Personally I Always prefered the S6/S7 adc meta where ADCs were the main part of bot, and supports were mostly just.. a support.. "

"Like I miss when supports were literally just assistants in bot lane and adc."

This is a very roundabout way of saying:

"I hate not having full control in bot lane and I wished supports would go back to being walking ward dispensers and my personal bitches again like they used to be."

So you want to be:

strong early game
strong mid game
super strong late game
good at dpsing
able to burst
good at taking objectives
good at poking and harassing

all while having a personal bodyguard whose sole purpose is to suck you off even more and nothing else.

question: what kind of masochist would queue up as a support to be just decoration?

If you want to dip and dive into all these roles and take the support´s job as the early game bully on top of that, then you have to give supports a new role in return, because 3 additional wards and having to do what every other role can or could do on a budget is hardly incentivizing.

NaughtyWord2/27/2020, 8:57:21 PM1 votes

It wouldn't be as much of an issue if Rito wasn't intent on nerfing defensive abilities to the point of laughably bad.

In theory, Morgana would be great against mages botlane, but Blackshield has lost its teeth.

Ideally, I'd like to see Karma 's inspire to be reworked to work like Blackshield or another champion with similiar utility. So this way people will have to learn to play a lane rather than just banning their one counter.

only zhule2/27/2020, 10:51:22 PM1 votes

I think a lot of the issue is just mana costs. Playing an enchanter i find that my mana costs are usually quite high for rather sub par to mild spells. I do a full rotation and there goes like 40-50% of my mana pool.... a mage goes full combo and it's like >30% of their pool. It's really hard to keep pace with champions who have better damage, better individual scaling, and most importantly better costs; then you do. Even more so with the fact that basically everyone now gets 30-40% CDR.

Also with better mana costs, there is less reason to invest into support items with high mana regen/ utility abilities. Like if i can trade out item 3107 for item 3151 / or item 3504 for item 3157 (yes i know the costs are different) i can do so much more damage then someone who has to blow 3-4 slots on support items.

vgamedude2/28/2020, 1:51:41 AM1 votes

The lack of counterplay? You adc mains are the most delusional people in this entire game. The mage has kits where they have to hit skill shots to do damage and all you do is auto attack them and you have the nerve to talk about counterplay?

Not to mention mages bot are so rare they dont even show up on U.gg.

PaffWasTaken2/27/2020, 3:14:42 PM1 votes

The problem is that, in most comps, mages are a necessity. Even if you kick them out from their usual position, they'll just fill into others to compensate since, once again, they are needed.

Mages botlane, while bringing diversity after nearly half a decade of solely marksman + enchanter or marksman + tank, are still incredibly annoying, but this is mostly because of the mage itemisation who is still faulty after so much reworks in the past. Simply put, mage items are the biggest stat sticks in the whole game and, with the only exception of item 3089 , has build paths who outclasses nearly every other uncompleted item buildpaths from other item classes. It doesn't matter if they lack gold because they fill in support or if they are getting bullied out of botlane; they can and will come back through their underpriced itemisation, no matter what. So, my main problem with mages is that they always bring more damage to a game who is already oversaturated in damage.

And the sad thing is that there's only 2 possible solutions to this problem, and both of them are huge changes that Riot will most probably never do anytime soon, the first being giving back midlane to mages (by either finally gutting assassins or giving them some way to lane against them) so that they won't pollute botlane anymore, and the second being entirely reworking the entire AP itemisation. But another problem is that both solutions only fix part of the problem, the first keeping mages at an unhealthy level and the second not guaranteeing mages from being any less annoying in bot.

If there is something I don't want to see ever again, is the ADC centric meta of Season 6 and 7, that's for sure. But the fact that litterally every lane and roles need to pick a carry champion to be any relevant is a bullshit meta that needs to be shuffled quite a bit. Not only do toplane now NEEDS you to counter pick or use a snowball carry or one of the three usable juggernauts, but Jungle also NEEDS you to have a champion who can perma-gank and carry, so having support to also be an AP carry is just a testament of how low this game went.

Hazardus ducees2/27/2020, 5:21:02 PM1 votes

I actually share the same opinionated perspective. League noticed that making more supports was going to be too hard due to balancing issues they once had every time they made one for that role. Because of how the roles are now, it is either that you're a vanguard, a warden, an enchanter, catcher, for the support role... and most of the time they're filled with a bunch of "unfun" mechanics by league's standards.

If you really want to talk about something annoying, lets take a look at double assassin or burst comp bot lane. Heck, artillery or burst can easily combine with Slayer, and win at all times. There is absolutely nothing a normal comp vs high early damage and great 1v1 potential can do to prepare against such an encounter.