RiotLyte, the changes proposed will not fix dynamic queue

50ShadesOfGender·1/15/2016, 10:18:17 PM·41 votes·3,589 views

RiotLyte announced the following changes would be made to dynamic queue

  1. We're significantly increasing the matchmaker preference to pit 5s against 5s, and 4+1s against 4+1s.
  2. We're changing the matchmaker to reduce the number of lopsided matches, and wait a little longer in queues for games 3)We're changing pro-level matchmaking so queues are longer, but they are more likely to face Challenger+ This should fix many of the concerns about Dynamic Queue

This will still not fix dynamic queue and in fact will make it worse. Imagine if 5 teams NEVER played against non 5 man teams, this sounds like a perfect system based on your announcement. In this scenario, how could you rank teams and individuals on the SAME ladder when they can NEVER even play each other?

Reducing the amount that teams and individuals play each other only makes the ladder rankings more inaccurate (which is the entire problem of dynamic queue). Dynamic queue forces teams of inferior players to play vs unorganized teams of superior players based of some arbitrary difference in skill level that riot decides. This introduces a massive amount of variance and luck into the system and increases the inaccuracy and exploitability of the system.

In addition, the skill set required for team play is different than solo queue. Many solo queue all-stars have not done as well in their transition to the pro scene. It is fundamentally a different game, many pros have said this. It does not make sense to rank these different skill sets on the same ladder.

The only real solution to have an accurate ranking is separate queues for individuals and teams. Even the old system was not perfect, but it was reasonable.

Edit: Old riot lyte post discussing dynamic queue: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/GD/JNwgrzih-qa-about-dynamic-queues-and-new-champ-select?show=flat&page=14

In his first point he gives a great example of why dynamic queue won't be balanced:

  1. We upgraded the matchmaking system to pair similar group comps together.** It is possible that it might be harder to rank up in a premade group than as a solo because you'll be consistently exposed to crazier, and more competitive strategies.**

What if top laners do much better when paired with a team of 4 than junglers? What if the team of 4 invites the random to their call? What about the increased impact of smurfs queueing together? What about the skill differences required to play as a team vs solo queue? What if their matchmaking algorithm favors mechanically skilled individual players and teams with good shot calling (versus the other way around)? What about champion balance in teams vs solo play? There are so many different factors to balance the match making algorithm around now that it inevitably will favor certain players and team sizes more than others.

I guess we are just stuck with it for a while.

33 Comments

Cosnirak1/16/2016, 4:29:06 AM3 votes

The old solo/duo queue system has almost all of these problems as well, though a couple are the opposite extreme (but still a problem). Mostly though I think people are vastly overestimating the effects of this (except at the very top levels of play).

Jaawn1/16/2016, 1:29:30 AM2 votes

{quoted}

Reducing the amount that teams and individuals play each other only makes the ladder rankings more inaccurate (which is the entire problem of dynamic queue). Dynamic queue forces teams of inferior players to play vs unorganized teams of superior players based of some arbitrary difference in skill level that riot decides. This introduces a massive amount of variance and luck into the system and increases the inaccuracy and exploitability of the system.

The only real solution to have an accurate ranking is separate queues for individuals and teams. Even the old system was not perfect, but it was reasonable.

This^

A bunch of people (maybe even you) explained these issues over here, a long time ago: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/GD/JNwgrzih-qa-about-dynamic-queues-and-new-champ-select?show=flat&page=14

Mech0p1/16/2016, 2:28:09 AM2 votes

I don't think dynamic que is here to stay, at least I hope its not... But I think if they were gonna do something like this they should have put it into the team ranked instead of tampering with solo que which is what the majority of people play... Now its just unfair because if you can find players that have solid mechanics and macro play while your garbage you could get carried to diamond and above even if your only silver which is just bs because its not what solo q should represent... Solo q should represent how far you as a single person can climb the latter by yourself hints the name Solo not team... But from what ive seen premades often play a team of solo q players which is just unfair "even if its only a premade of 3" and is honestly like putting up the Navy seals vs a bunch of farmers... Also if this is here to stay you have to implement in game talk so that solo q players can hold their own vs these premades which well probably still go sour because of the lack of synergy... If you don't do anything else this season riot please at least do this and revert solo que back to its original state and keep premades away from places they don't belong

Summonerrr 11/16/2016, 2:50:43 AM2 votes

One of the things I've noticed as well is in addition to the crazier kinds of strategies, I've noticed crazier kinds of toxicity. Some people just hate the idea so much that they're not even trying to make it work, they're just picking support and then going with their main and summs that don't even make sense for support. This could even work despite being non-meta (and fucking retarded, I might add) , but most people would rather dodge than try to work with this level of stupidity.

Good job.

Yuri By Mail1/16/2016, 7:44:17 AM2 votes

I couldn't care less for those poor saps who have no friends to play with, this queue is beautiful and fits everything my friends and I want.

Some would tell you to stay salty. I'll just tell you to deal with it.

astralwit1/16/2016, 7:55:10 PM2 votes

It's fundamentally broken because several groups in the same que will almost never interact and if they were made to interact, it would be unfair. For example, those who play mainly with 3s will be with other 3s, solo with solo etc. If that were any different, it would be unfair and unpleasant. However, the guy playing solo isn't playing the guys in 3s and yet they're both ranked as if it means the same thing when it doesn't at all. I thought some good points were made here. Basically, the ranking you see for a player will become pretty meaningless because it represents so many different types of play and player pools all garbled together.

Brahmsauce1/16/2016, 11:45:18 PM2 votes

I don't understand they just make 2 simple ques. Solo, and Dynamic (2,3s, and 5s). Everyone wins. Other games do it, and they ALSO scrapped the total dynamic. Riot has the road map for success laid out before them but ignore it. I don't know why lyte is so hellbent on having 4 man ranked premades included.

Weskler1/15/2016, 11:55:20 PM2 votes

And IF you end up been the lone wolf in a team of 4+1 and the team doesnt win then they all will report you most likely and let the reports/bans rain!!!

Çhåryzård1/17/2016, 5:18:56 AM1 votes

The only concern i have about dynamic queue right now is that I cant find any way to use my chroma pack

Ellphi1/17/2016, 7:24:07 AM1 votes

This does nothing to the address the issue where my own personal ELO is on the line and I want to play SOLO queue when I gamble with my individual MMR where no player/s have innate advantages.

I do NOT want to be lumped into a random ass 4 man so that I have less say in a game that alters my ELO the same way a real solo queue game would.

It doesn't really matter to me that there's another miserable solo queuer lumped in with a 4 man on the other team because that does nothing to fix anything.

Miss Mommy1/17/2016, 7:26:16 AM1 votes

Still miles better than old champion select.

Sohleks1/17/2016, 7:28:46 AM1 votes

Just kill dynamic queue above diamond 1 , 0lp and keep it for the casuals.