Boards›Gameplay

We need more nerfs, not more buffs.

o brigid o·3/25/2018, 11:12:36 AM·34 votes·1,507 views

When something is too strong... YES, please nerf it! This doesn't mean then buff the hell out of every champion that was taking advantage of an OP item to make up for the loss of how ridiculous that item was.

When champions are so strong in a meta that they have a super high win rate or crazy pick/ban rates... YES, please nerf them instead of buffing everything else to help them deal with them.

You aren't going to be able to kill the snowballing nature of the game when you're constantly buffing everything... base stats, items, scaling... to catch up to whatever is currently the strongest exploit in the game.

Overall, I think a lot of things need to be nerfed, from champion base stats to items and their scaling to cooldowns.

  • I think the changes to armor penetration only worsened the snowballing.
  • I think RNG crit should be a bigger risk for players who choose to focus their build around it.
  • I think 40-45% CDR shouldn't be an absolute for every mage pretty much no matter how they choose to build thanks to the crazy amount of CDR on items combined with runes.
  • I think stats like armor penetration or lethality, cooldown reduction, and critical strike shouldn't be available on so many items, or that there should be a bigger trade-off for choosing to get so many items with those stats.
  • I think high-burst trades should be riskier for champions capable of them.
  • MF shouldn't be able to land one Q and kill half the enemy's hp bar with nothing but a doran's blade and b.f. sword. without any help from her support and while safely behind her entire wave of minions. That kind of damage isn't okay without forcing players to take bigger risks to make it happen.
  • Actually I think marksmen in general should be about sustained damage in lane and team fights and not about burst at all. Burst should be left to champions who go on cooldown after they complete their combo, and not champions who can just keep shooting, knowing that every other shot is going to crit for 600 damage.
  • I think there isn't any possible item or champion that should allow you to burst an enemy in a couple seconds from 100 to 0 in the first five minutes of the game.
  • I think turrets should be strong enough that players can't tank 3-5 shots in the first 10 minutes of the game to perform early dives without dying or death-defying abilities.

I don't mind having shorter games. I mind that games are shorter because so little is required to get ahead and snowball the game into the ground. I think slower but smart, methodical play should be more rewarding than taking one big risk early and lucking out or winning one trade in lane to establish a snowballing lead.

These are opinions based on my experience of the game. I admit I lack a lot of insight more knowledgeable players could add to the discussion, but am open to having the discussion.

Please share any thoughts or additions you might have.

52 Comments

Draehl3/25/2018, 5:35:15 PM11 votes

I can definitely attest to how out of control things have gotten. I left for a season and a half (coming back for Runes Reforged) and it's silly how much damage is flying around. For some context I was a die hard tank Bard main. The build made for a terrible healer, did pathetic damage, but was able to wade into fights with strong defensive stats/CDR and get solid Q stun angles, ferry my team around with magical journey, and block skillshots for them, etc. It wasn't your standard Bard playstyle, but I very much enjoyed it. I come back to the game and have tried countless iterations of Guardian, Grasp, Klepto (to get tank items faster), Spellbook, etc. and none of them work. You melt to nearly anyone unless they're massively behind in CS. Meanwhile, I can go Electrocute and build damage items and do stupid levels of burst.

I don't understand Riot. It's like they want to prioritize this childish, glory-hogging burst damage playstyle at the expense of everything else.

SmashinBob3/25/2018, 4:59:14 PM7 votes

I think the biggest issue was when they removed the old rune system with the new one, in the old rune system pretty much every champion used to run Armor and MR on blue and yellow 90% of the time.

Whearas the new rune system barely gives any defensive stats, leading to much more snowbally state as all champions have much less defense than before, so its more about all ins and oneshoting rather than trading now.

And i know they did pump some defense stats into the champions when rune reforged hit, but its was nowhere near the level the runes actually gave themselves.

WiegrafOfValor3/25/2018, 7:22:48 PM6 votes

#Actually I think marksmen in general should be about sustained damage in lane and team fights and not about burst at all. Burst should be left to champions who go on cooldown after they complete their combo, and not champions who can just keep shooting, knowing that every other shot is going to crit for 900 damage.

THE TRUTH WAS SPOKEN! https://i.ytimg.com/vi/6tcgSxYa7EQ/maxresdefault.jpg

Eedat3/25/2018, 3:48:11 PM3 votes

The changes to armor pen made the game more snowbally? Are you nuts? Armor pen was straight up nerfed in every aspect

  • Flat armor pen changed to lethality. Lethality is just a straight up nerfed version of flat armor pen. Instead of buying an item and getting your armor pen, it's now gimped and scales up to what flat armor pen was at level 18

  • LW absolutely beyond any shadow of a doubt hard nerfed. Used to give 35% total armor pen. Now it gives 35% bonus armor pen. Armor pen on LW got straight up hard nerfed

  • BC just striaght up lost 6% shred plus 15 flat armor pen

It's fairly obvious that you're just being insanely biased. No person in their right mind could ever try to justify armor pen being hard nerfed as a snowball factor

Ariel the Cruel3/26/2018, 4:20:13 AM3 votes

<Shines the nerf signal>

Nerf Master Suck Town, we need you! XD

Yaśuo Main3/25/2018, 1:38:44 PM3 votes

When something is too strong... YES, please nerf it! This doesn't mean then buff the hell out of every champion that was taking advantage of an OP item to make up for the loss of how ridiculous that item was.

I think RNG crit should be a bigger risk for players who choose to focus their build around it.

note: crit yi is a big risk so there u go

I think stats like armor penetration or lethality, cooldown reduction, and critical strike shouldn't be available on so many items,

Actually I think marksmen in general should be about sustained damage in lane and team fights and not about burst at all

note: that's exactly what marksmen are, in early laning phase. sustained damage.

Yo I'm not gonna lie, I smell bias against marksmen and assassins right now.

I don't know if you play Zed or not, but the same item you talk about (we know its duskblade) is the only thing that made him viable. So stop generalizing the entire item into being abused by all assassins when it was 2 champions abusing it.

RainXBlade3/26/2018, 5:56:32 PM2 votes

For me, I think the glaring issue with Riot's balancing philosophy is that when they nerf something in an item or champion's kit, they try to compensate for it by looking at other areas of that particular aspect of the game; and that compensation creates all sorts of new problems for that aspect of the game (whether it be a mechanic/number change on a champion or item).

When something needs to be nerfed for being too strong or oppressive, it should ONLY get nerfed and nothing more. No compensation buffs, no nothing. Just a straight-up nerf to keep them in line with other champions.

A good example of this are ADCs like Xayah and Tristana who need a nerf (or change for Tristana's case) in their kits to make them less oppressive to deal with.

Ifneth3/25/2018, 8:04:56 PM2 votes

At least one of your justifications is wrong.

No ADC can critically strike even the squishiest targets for 900 damage without full build and a damage steroid. They just can’t.

70 AD from Infinity Edge 70 AD from Lord Dominik’s Regards 60 AD from Mercurial Scimitar.

That’s 200 AD. A critical strike will give 200 bonus damage. Infinity edge will give another 200 damage. Even before armor, that’s only 600 damage, or 2/3 of your quoted amount. Base armor will reduce that by around 1/3, to 400 damage per auto. Bonus armor will drop it even further.

I Love Roses3/25/2018, 11:00:32 PM1 votes

Because people wanted snowball thats why riot gave them snowball, now you don't want them, like wtf?

Pendergast8913/26/2018, 7:57:18 AM1 votes

And the worst part is that in pro scenes this super snowbally, high damage meta makes them turtle up for over actual hours and Riot sees that as a sign that they need stronger ways to end games faster. You can now have rift and baroned minions barreling down your nexus turrets all from 1 lost team fight. So stressful.

DNFVixen3/26/2018, 11:44:15 AM1 votes

{quoted}

When something is too strong... YES, please nerf it! This doesn&#039;t mean then buff the hell out of every champion that was taking advantage of an OP item to make up for the loss of how ridiculous that item was.

When champions are so strong in a meta that they have a super high win rate or crazy pick/ban rates... YES, please nerf them instead of buffing everything else to help them deal with them.

You aren&#039;t going to be able to kill the snowballing nature of the game when you&#039;re constantly buffing everything... base stats, items, scaling... to catch up to whatever is currently the strongest exploit in the game.

Overall, I think a lot of things need to be nerfed, from champion base stats to items and their scaling to cooldowns.

  • I think the changes to armor penetration only worsened the snowballing.
  • I think RNG crit should be a bigger risk for players who choose to focus their build around it.
  • I think 40-45% CDR shouldn&#039;t be an absolute for every mage pretty much no matter how they choose to build thanks to the crazy amount of CDR on items combined with runes.
  • I think stats like armor penetration or lethality, cooldown reduction, and critical strike shouldn&#039;t be available on so many items, or that there should be a bigger trade-off for choosing to get so many items with those stats.
  • I think high-burst trades should be riskier for champions capable of them.
  • MF shouldn&#039;t be able to land one Q and kill half the enemy&#039;s hp bar with nothing but a doran&#039;s blade and b.f. sword. without any help from her support and while safely behind her entire wave of minions. That kind of damage isn&#039;t okay without forcing players to take bigger risks to make it happen.
  • Actually I think marksmen in general should be about sustained damage in lane and team fights and not about burst at all. Burst should be left to champions who go on cooldown after they complete their combo, and not champions who can just keep shooting, knowing that every other shot is going to crit for 600 damage.
  • I think there isn&#039;t any possible item or champion that should allow you to burst an enemy in a couple seconds from 100 to 0 in the first five minutes of the game.
  • I think turrets should be strong enough that players can&#039;t tank 3-5 shots in the first 10 minutes of the game to perform early dives without dying or death-defying abilities.

I don&#039;t mind having shorter games. I mind that games are shorter because so little is required to get ahead and snowball the game into the ground. I think slower but smart, methodical play should be more rewarding than taking one big risk early and lucking out or winning one trade in lane to establish a snowballing lead.

These are opinions based on my experience of the game. I admit I lack a lot of insight more knowledgeable players could add to the discussion, but am open to having the discussion.

Please share any thoughts or additions you might have.

I quit league because of what it became, i hate short games i honestly do, but what made me quit was the ammount of damage this game now has, ever since season 6 the game has been doing downhill and fast.

Pika Fox3/26/2018, 3:55:45 PM1 votes

Can we please stop pretending we are better game designers than Riot?

Ahristocats3/25/2018, 5:03:31 PM1 votes

hey entire bruiser class sucks

nerf 100 champions to buff them

makes sense :^)