Biased Matchmaking

The Great Mido·8/25/2019, 5:40:39 PM·5 votes·4,914 views

I am asking for genuine thoughts, this isn't a rant but I would like some perspective.

It seems that my win rate is much much higher when I am not in my promos and when I am not playing with a duo in Solo/Duo Queue.

I have about a 55% win rate as a jungle but I am hard stuck in Gold 2-3. I don't know why you can be hard stuck if you have a win rate above 50%. My team is far worse during promos and far worse when I am with a duo. League is the only game I have played that you can grind all day long on and make no progress. Frankly, It seems like it is the goal of the game - keep you from climbing UNLESS you are absolutely amazing at the game.

I know people will say, "play better u suck", but honestly - I have a 64% win rate with Nunu (main - 58 games) but I cannot climb because the promos seem so rigged.

Is this something Riot acknowledges? Do other people share in this frustration or have the same problem?

Thanks!

6 Comments

420 grams8/25/2019, 5:59:17 PM2 votes

I see a lot of people say the same thing, but I don’t think it’s promos. I think it’s anytime you go on a win streak, your mmr tells Riot you suddenly became a god at the game and carry everybody.

I play, um, lets say more aggressively right after I get promoted and during 1-2 promo games where I can lose without losing lp. Sounds dumb, but it made climbing last season through much easier than when i treated every game like I needed to win. I don’t think there’s actually a forced 50% win rate thing, but there’s a lot of losses that seem inevitable so if you can “get lucky” and put those loses when you don’t lose lp, your mmr still stays at your skill level and you can climb easier.

Kai Guy8/25/2019, 6:35:00 PM2 votes

Rn=Ro+K(W-We) Raiding adjustments in MMR are some deviation of this formula. So ΔR=K(W-We).

In English. Your New rating = your Old rating + K variable multiplied by the Match results after subtracting system expectations. Delta R is change in R, so the exact # of points you gained or lost at the end of the match.

Because averages exist naturally the assumption is that in any finite group of people there will be an average level of skill. Elo simply looks to find who is At, Above, and Below that average. So you use a Curve.

Now, the errors people make. They don't understand what values represent and provide/use bad context. I have about 200+ games and there are 11 different champions I maintain a 100% WR on. Why am I not higher? All of those 11 champions are sub 3 games. They account for a fraction of my total games played this season. 11 champs at 100% looks good until you find out that its only like 15 of my wins this year.

It seems like it is the goal of the game - keep you from climbing UNLESS you are absolutely amazing at the game.

Yes and no. MM does want to keep you from climbing if your not stand out from the average, it also wants to keep you from sinking if your not stand out from average. There's nothing forced about this thou, as averages occur naturally. MM is your results get compared to the average around you then adjust to reflect your results.

Forced MM is unnatural, and it breaks a Elo systems back. You cant use Skill ratings for accurate assumptions about skill when their generation is unnatural. You cant Rig results with inaccurate skill ratings with any accuracy. Forced 50% is a stupid argument you destroy any naturally occurring curve for average skill so you lose the very metric your system generates skill expectations with.

Now Riots class interval expectations might have issues. That would come into play with MM ranges. Using a Probability distribution you make assumptions for what **accurate **ratings look like so that you have an exact measurement of how much better player at 1200 would be compared to say 1000. the value of this scale is irrelevant as the values are arbitrary. The expectation between 2 values is what matters. In chess 200E (Elo points) = 1C (class interval) and it represents a 3 to 1 expectation roughly. So about 75% of games 1200 wins vs 1000. This is used for We generation.

You do that because at some point you just don't expect the skill gap to provide good data. Beating your cousin or best friends little brother in smash brothers 100 out of 100 games does not make you #1 smash player of all time, just that your opponent is not near enough to your level of skill for any kind of competition to happen.

So, when you sink to far in a MMR system, your rating does not match your skill, the We expectations for you do not match your results. Your account will correct back upwards. If you get a fatty streak from some teammates? the opposite holds true, and you sink back down. this happens because your MMR is the Mean range of your performances and its looking to put you on the curve with everybody else who shares a mean range like yours.

At which point its "fair" because who ever has a better game will win and the system assumes you have equal odds for that.

People need to think of the system like a bank balance rather then a win tracker.

I will stop here and give you a moment to ask any questions you have. then if your interested still lets move on to talk about why people get stuck in a class interval and why WR for total account is not an accurate measurement due to K factor changes, and the impact that duoing makes.

I do need to point out that you absolutely have to modify the formula I listed to account for team games, but its still provably functional just takes more data points.

PiggyTheAstro8/25/2019, 6:04:40 PM1 votes

I went on a 7 win streak in ranked as thresh, havent gone on a lose streak afterwards. I'm surprised about what you say with duo. In my personal experience, I win more with a duo, since solo you know that there are 1/5 people on your team (only you) that know what you're doing. With duo it's 2/5 (assuming you and the duo is good).

Darkdemon6538/25/2019, 6:07:20 PM1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Great Mido,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hecOAxeV,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-08-25T17:40:39.610+0000)

I have about a 55% win rate as a jungle but I am hard stuck in Gold 2-3. I don't know why you can be hard stuck if you have a win rate above 50%.

Your overall win rate is, according to op.gg, 51.1551%. As for how you can not climb while having a win rate above 50%, there are a couple ways. Dodging will cause an LP loss without counting as a loss on your record. If your rank is higher than it should be for your MMR, you'll be losing more LP on a loss than you gain on a win. You might not have enough games. If you never dodge, always gain and lose LP at an equal rate (or gain more than you lose), have a win rate above 50%, and continue to play, you WILL climb. If those conditions are met, it's impossible not to. Even if there are conditions that aren't met, it's still possible to climb, though it will be harder/less likely/more time consuming.

IllIllIlllllll8/25/2019, 6:44:34 PM1 votes

Just use this if you're trying to climb https://na.op.gg/multi/

Also try getting better at the game a 55% wr isn't that great

if you have a 68% wr with nunu why dont you just play him and raise your winrate from 55% to 68%

U R Good At Game8/26/2019, 7:45:28 PM1 votes

Your mmr in duo q is inflated because riot is trying to predict your synergy and advantage over randoms. That means if you want to duo Q your duo isn't allowed to be bad. Your duo Q is supposed to be 1 player you know will win 90% of their match-ups. If they aren't winning almost everytime your just making the game harder for no benefit elo-wise. I started duoing with a friend who recently came back and got demoted twice and finally had to tell him we couldn't queue solo/duo anymore.