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Can we clear something up about this game?

Stormfather·11/20/2015, 8:39:20 PM·2 votes·774 views

I feel like I shouldn't even have to be posting this, but lately I've noticed some confusion about the role of the jungler and ganking. Of course the jungler should gank wherever it is the best opportunity, but if a lane is losing, is it the jungler's, and even the whole team's, job to simply let that lane keep losing? I will admit that there's been a few games recently where I didn't do well in lane, and in order to try to shut down my lane opponent and come back I asked for a gank. More than once now, I've been told that it's not the jungler's job to help you win your lane, that it's their job to gank winning lanes to help them snowball. Now, to begin with, I know it's my own fault that the lane was lost. I got outplayed, it happens. And I know that getting lanes to snowball is good and should happen. But are people really all in agreement that in order to accomplish this you let one lane, approximately 1/5 of your entire team (or 2/5 if you're bot) fall so far behind that they can't do anything to help the team? I really feel like it should be obvious that you don't just cut an entire team member off simply because they're not doing well, but as I've said, more than once now multiple people in a game have told me that they are going to do just that. Just to clarify, in these situations I don't want the jungler to have to do all the work for me, which is what some people claim when I ask for help. I just want a little help in getting a kill or two so that I can start coming back and being useful. Does everyone feel the same way as these people, or have I just been getting unlucky?

29 Comments

EndlessSorcerer11/20/2015, 8:54:15 PM4 votes

It all depends on the situation. There is no cut-and-dry answer for this question.

If the losing laner isn't good at following up or warding, attempting to help them could result in them not responding or you getting counterganked.

If the enemy laner is fed or at a major power-spike, attempting to gank them could easily result in one or both of you dying for little gain.

Maybe the jungler doesn't need that lane to win because the champion provides enough utility to be useful even when behind and your attention is better spent elsewhere.

Maybe the jungler decides that different teammate are more important to assist or that shutting down enemies in different lanes is a bigger priority.

Knowing how to play from behind is a very important skill.

Knowing when to roam, how to farm and/or stay relevant while behind, when to let your tower fall so you can freeze deeper on your side of the map, or when to farm jungle camps to try and catch back up are very useful skills.

When I jungle, I prefer ganking winning lanes for a few reasons.

  • They already have a lead so it will be easier to get further kills in that lane
  • They have already proven themselves competent, so I'm more likely to trust them to continue performing well
  • If we get counterganked, there is a better chance we will be able to successful turn it because they are stronger than their lane opponent(s).

If you want to know why I don't like ganking losing lanes (unless the opportunity is good or no one else needs help or I'm personally very strong), just reverse the above reasoning.

jaymc113011/20/2015, 9:08:40 PM2 votes

Mostly you will only hear bad advice on this subject because the truth is junglers mostly suck at every level of this game. Even in diamond where I play it's more common to see a jungler with zero knowledge of how to play his position properly than it is to get one with common sense.

The role of the jungler is pretty simple in essence: control the map and pacing of the game. You are the swing man. You're supposed to swing to where you need to be to gain advantages for the team, and specifically the carries.

If a lane is losing hard it's best to avoid it and gain advantages for other lanes, with the exception of bot lane which should always be your primary priority. If a laner loses early and is down 0/1 that lane should be ganked immediately to rest the balance of the lane. Not allowed to continue to lose. Jungling requires intense focus and map awareness and better game sense and game knowledge than all the other roles combined and this is why most junglers fail. They are not capable of recognizing when to be where doing what to gain advantages and take objectives. If a lane loses hard core it's usually the laners fault, but the reality is it shouldn't have been allowed to get so out of hand. The real reason many players advocate ignoring a massively losing lane is because that laner usually gives up on the game and stops trying to play intelligently which makes it very difficult to coordinate with them and pull off successful plays.

Valexfor11/20/2015, 10:30:30 PM2 votes

Ganking a losing lane is HARD, if the enemy already outplayed your laner, he will probably be able to do it again, and that would leave you in a 1 vs 1 with a fed opponent. I used to main jungle (and often stil like to playe there), and what I actually learned from that experience was: when you say you are going to gank, they don't look at the map to se if you are near, they just engage and die, even if yuo clearly say in chat "Wait another 10 sec that I will be there"... too many times I said "Red/Blue then gank" and then, when I reach the buff, I get the "an ally has been slain" and the blame for not ganking him, only to see that my ally died either under the enemy tower, or in the enemy's part of the lane. When you do get a good gank, they wil just kill minions and won't follow, a losing laner is SCARED of fighting, so he only wants you to get the enemy low enough for them to instakill them, and if you take the kill, you STOLE the kill and you are a bad jungler, so they flame you... on top of that a winning lane will have a better setup for jungler's help, so you will get counterganked more efficiently and easily since the enemy is stronger and probably better than your laner, and let's not forget, a winning laner can ward more safely, so he can have even better awareness than a losing laner, preventing your ganks and making you waste time you could've used for dragon/ganking a winning lane/farm/killing the enemy jungler.

On the other hand a winning lane, for the opposite reasons, will be easier to gank. You will have better support from confident laners since they are already winning, they will probably have more and safer access to vision, making your ganks easier and stronger, the laner(s) will probably be able to handle an enemy gank making a counter-gank easier.

I'm not saying you have to let the lane go from 0/1 to 0/10, but unless the situation is just too good (like the enemy is overextending too much and you're confident since you are fed, or maybe your laner is inclined to help with the gank instead of suiciding and blaming you for not ganking, or better still another laner can come and help) it's better to either farm (and control objectives), or gank other lanes. Don't misunderstand my words, ganking lanes is as important (if not more important) as getting ahead and taking objective (since succesful gank = easier time taking objectives and better resources to help take them), but ganking a losing lane is usually not worth an objective or farm, since the laner won't cooperate 90% of the time. That said, if the laner i inclined to cooperation instead of just flaming you, things can change, unless you have a better "gank" in another lane, but then the laner should understand, getting a double bot for the adc, is better than making his 0/1 become 1/1. So, if you're one of the 10% of laners who actually want to cooperate, I guess you've just been unlucky by getting jungler who're fed up with bad laners who want them to do all the job and still take all the credit.

That said remember: a jungler is not a babysitter, he has already too many things to control on his own (objectives, jungle, enemy jungler) to babysitt a laner that only has to focus on his lane and maybe roam a bit (unless he's so strong that the enemy jungler is already shutted down and he can take the luxury of babysitting).

ShaftyMegee11/20/2015, 8:54:05 PM2 votes

I find that in this season the jungler shouldn't be ganging a lot. Instead they should be controlling objectives on the map.

GamblerOfLives11/20/2015, 10:53:24 PM1 votes

Nasus is useless unless he snowballs.If you got cc for him.Even with stacks,he is useless.The only thing he excels at is taking towers.But as long as fights go.He is useless.A melee champion with short range.Useless man.And armor works wonders vs his stacks;)

Bonipherus11/20/2015, 8:54:46 PM1 votes

Sometimes it's best to just ignore a losing lane and try to balance it out by getting one of your lanes to win. Often times it might be best to get another lane snowballed. It all depends really so there is no agreed rule about it.

BluePolarizer11/20/2015, 8:57:10 PM1 votes

"I feel like I shouldn't even have to be posting this, but lately I've noticed some confusion about the role of the jungler and ganking. Of course the jungler should gank wherever it is the best opportunity, but if a lane is losing, is it the jungler's, and even the whole team's, job to simply let that lane keep losing?"

Essentially yes. If the losing laner has proven that he is losing because he is incompetent, can't ward, can't farm, etc. it is absolutely the complete fault of the losing laner alone and it would be a detriment to the whole team to try to get him back on track. If I need help, I always say "being zoned but my CS is even, need help". This is to #1 say that I am taking responsibility for my loss and #2 that I am competent enough to accept help and get carried.

In fact it is the laner's responsibility to stop feeding, and that means not even going to lane if necessary and just start roaming, ganking and teamfighting. If I am so far behind that I can't even get carried, then I'll just abandon lane and make plays elsewhere.

DJColdCutz11/20/2015, 8:47:14 PM1 votes

Jungle's job is to control objectives/river and shut down the other jungler.