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Riot "The_Cactopus" opinion on the new Ranked 5s and Solo Q

GLockWisE··27 votes·2,666 views
The_Cactopus's comment from discussion "Ranked 5s queue returns during scheduled windows"

> I super hate this argument—like it personally pains me, but I have to be honest: we know for an absolute fact that a segment of players wants Solo Q, badly. We get it, and we hear you. > But it's not a majority of players. In fact, it's not even close. It's a very passionate vocal minority that, frankly, is vastly overrepresented on Reddit (and even here the tide is turning). A far greater segment of players is happy about being able to play ranked with a few friends. An even greater segment of players just doesn't give a damn (although this segment too is playing more ranked this season). Lots of people always wanted the ability to play ranked with more than one friend, and lots of people are fine with DQ now. The upset vocal minority has some very legitimate complaints about dynamic queue, so we're gonna bust our asses to try to address those criticisms and make ranked better for everyone. That means new features, more communication tools, better matchmaking tuning, and on. That's where we're going now. We've moving past SoloQ. Again, this isn't to say that we're ignoring the criticisms of dynamic queue. We hear you. And we're gonna get creative to make things better for all players. > So no, Memoryk, we're not bringing it back even though we know you want it and have good reasons for wanting it, because we're trying to manage this game and make it better for everyone. All our players deserves good queue times, high quality matchmaking, and a meaningful ranked experience whether you're playing alone or with friends. We can't get there by bringing back SoloQ, so we're going somewhere else.

It's not even close to the majority players? Makes sense why League is Plummeting and Overwatch is 1% away from being the most played game in Korea, Pc-Cafes. Love the statistics Rito. Brilliant.

31 Comments

Khell DarkWolf10 votes

As if it wasn't insulting already, the 3v3 community got shat on as well. Just like the Dominion players.

Blue Moon Wolf3 votes

ARAM got shafted during the last patch too. It wouldn't be a stretch to say poking is worse now than it was when ARAM was first released.

HaloDragonX2 votes

Really I think Aram is better now.

Blue Moon Wolf1 votes

If you think it's better now, then you must have a lot of poke champs. cause they are the only ones loving the summoner 32 nerf and the Orb of winter removal. melee champs are petty much back to turret hugging and hoping there is an opening at some point.

Seenan10 votes

'All our players deserves good queue times, high quality matchmaking, and a meaningful ranked experience whether you're playing alone or with friends. We can't get there by bringing back SoloQ, so we're going somewhere else.'

Matchmaking was far better and easier before, when you didn't have to factor in premade trios vs duos or other iterations...

HaloDragonX1 votes

I want to see how they do it. They're very much wanting to and no amount of complaining will end that, I'm more interested in how they can achieve their goal.

Vistha Kai10 votes

All our players deserves good queue times, high quality matchmaking, and a meaningful ranked experience whether you're playing alone or with friends. We can't get there by bringing back SoloQ, so we're going somewhere else.

Excuse my language, but I'm not going to beat around the bush here.

That is a fucking load of horse crap.


Queue times can go as high as 15-fucking-minutes in GOLD.

High quality matchmaking? That's what they call "Using higher ELO Solo to fill premade teams without any reward for doing so"?

Meaningful ranked experience? Yeah, sure nothing beats, being a solo in a team with 4 people with the same club name, who never speak or use pings. Or suddenly at the same time being ganked by 2 guys, because their premade buddy-buddy is struggling in lane. Or not having a jungler, because enemy premade is counterjungling, starting at level 1. Or playing with a Silver in Plat, because his "Gold" buddy is dodging promo games.

Lots of people always wanted the ability to play ranked with more than one friend, and lots of people are fine with DQ now.

I mean, why wouldn't you boost your winrate by 10 fucking percent by playing with higher ranked friends, right? Who wouldn't do that? Me, because out of average of 50 online guys on my friends list I had in Season 5, now I see max 5 weekly.


Sure, keep on repeating lies about how good statistics, that nobody has ever seen, look like. https://makeameme.org/media/templates/250/willy_wonka_sarcasm_meme.jpg Watching people making fools of themselves, always gives me a good laugh.

Blue Socialist7 votes

Honestly, the Overwatch argument is overrated. Overwatch being popular has little to do with Dynamic Queue. The game has a ton of hype since it's relatively new and it's a lot more relaxed so losing doesn't feel as bad (games are much quicker than like 40 minutes, so losing doesn't feel as much of wasted time.). More on this in this video Sky made: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08m4nJMHMiU

Overwatch being popular has more to do with completely different core components of the game compared to League rather than this whole Dynamic Queue situation. Correlation does not imply causation. Just because Overwatch was released when Dynamic Queue was a thing doesn't mean the same thing wouldn't have been possible if Overwatch was released last year.

For what it's worth, Cactopus is actually among the better Rioters in terms of community interaction (at least, in terms of reddit. Much like how one might think of Riot Repertoir on the Boards at one point or another.). Like it or not, Cactopus isn't exactly entirely wrong with what he's saying. Expecting to be downvoted into oblivion for not agreeing with the vocal side of the matter, but w/e.

KekOfTheFinest7 votes

Well,this vocal 'minority' is the hardcore and veteran base. You know,the fuckers that keep the bloody game alive!? Yeah...

Xonra4 votes

{quoted}

Well,this vocal 'minority' is the hardcore and veteran base. You know,the fuckers that keep the bloody game alive!? Yeah...

I'm in a minority alright. Been playing since 2010, paid well over 1k into this game, and I'm still playing SOLO.

Riot wants to say I'm not important because I'm a "minority" in their little graphs, well then they can keep their casuals and I'll keep my money.

hawaii tide6 votes

upvoted for visiblity... i hate this company

Nobuyoki6 votes

In my first reading, I read "The upset vocal minority has some very legitimate criticisms and make ranked better for everyone.". Then I reread it, and I was disappointed. Riot still wants to say that we are the vocal minority without even showing the numbers that could show the opposite. I honestly think that their datas are so bad that they cannot be manipulated to show that Riot is right with its DQ ;D

Ryzing2Diamond1 votes

{quoted}

In my first reading, I read "The upset vocal minority has some very legitimate criticisms and make ranked better for everyone.". Then I reread it, and I was disappointed. Riot still wants to say that we are the vocal minority without even showing the numbers that could show the opposite. I honestly think that their datas are so bad that they cannot be manipulated to show that Riot is right with its DQ ;D

Or they have nothing to gain from proving fans wrong except scorn?

It's called PR.

Nobuyoki3 votes

I don't see why they would gain nothing by doing that. Apart from the usual "liars" dudes that will always be there, the other that knows that Riot doesn't necessarly lies when they share informations will read the datas and understant that they were wrong (if they were). Thus leading to less people leaving the game. But maybe I'm the only one that will change his mind if they show us that DQ is OP and everyone is happy? Because honestly, nobody can talk about the opinion of the silent majority, so I'll stay with the idea that DQ feels unfair for the people that are invested in the game, which are those that makes really great posts about the flaws and advantages of DQ in this forum or reddit. And I'm adding myself to the guys that think that DQ isn't such a great idea.

Hyrum Graff2 votes

{quoted}

In my first reading, I read "The upset vocal minority has some very legitimate criticisms and make ranked better for everyone.". Then I reread it, and I was disappointed. Riot still wants to say that we are the vocal minority without even showing the numbers that could show the opposite. I honestly think that their datas are so bad that they cannot be manipulated to show that Riot is right with its DQ ;D

He said 11% of league players globally hate DQ, elsewhere on reddit.

Troll for Trump5 votes

Just keep vomiting the "vocal minority" argument... Do they even have any proof comparing the neutral, anti DynaQ, and pro DynaQ playerbase percentages?

And not the survey; That was either pro/no, is out of date, and biased/misleading.

UnwardiI4 votes

Yup.

At this point, I've given them the rest of the year to either fix this mess or I'm moving on to another game permanently. They've already fucked up enough that they aren't getting another penny out of me, so now it's just a matter of whether or not the game can survive when 10% of it's most dedicated player base suddenly jump ship.

Cause that's what I don't think they realize.

I'd put money on the fact that those 10% highly vocal people play a shit load more games than the other 90% who don't care.

Blue Moon Wolf4 votes

Didn't really help when they said "we're gonna get creative to make things better for all players." and the first thing they do is release those rank emblems.

Voidrey1 votes

perhaps its a start for brighter things

KING ATTILA4 votes

God dammit....wanna play with friends? Play normals. Or teambullder (oh wait that's gone). Wanna play ranked with friends? Play ranked 5's.

Wanna play seriously in Solo Queue and see where you accurately and fairly stand on the ranked ladder? Lol no fuck you.

The Yetii Rider3 votes

People are quitting LoL in Korea because in Korea there are scripters in every game. 35000 accounts were banned in January and February of this year for cheating in Korea.

And good for Cactus for sticking to his guns and actually answering a thread asking for solo queue with a flat "no".

Kei1432 votes

you soloQ enthusiast think too highly of yourself.

Keevalroy2 votes

"But muh data doe!"

Kedren Aderac2 votes

http://img.pandawhale.com/post-31074-J-Jonah-Jameson-laughing-gif-S-NWLY.gif

{quoted}

It's not even close to the majority players? Makes sense why League is Plummeting and Overwatch is 1% away from being the most played game in Korea, Pc-Cafes. Love the statistics Rito. Brilliant.

Indeed.

Keylight XD2 votes

"A far greater segment of players is happy about being able to play ranked with a few friends. An even greater segment of players just doesn't give a damn" What is this based on? Just because I'm not complaining on reddit doesn't mean I'm "satisfied" or dynamicQ > SoloQ. One does not imply the other. I don't think I have ever seen a mandatory vote regarding dynamic Q (other than the "do you like to play with friends? xD).

For the record I still enjoy the game but not as much as before soloQ.

Voidrey1 votes

I'm probably gonna get downvoted, but I have to agree that it is more of a vocal minority, and at least half of the entire community just doesn't care. but many can see that this vocal minority is mostly in the ranked high elo, so maybe just put Solo or Duo or Trio Queue in ranked, and leave Dynamic in everything else? also I am going to have faith in Riot that they will at least solve some the problems every one has with Dynamic Queue

KING ATTILA2 votes

{quoted}

I'm probably gonna get downvoted, but I have to agree that it is more of a vocal minority, and at least half of the entire community just doesn't care. but many can see that this vocal minority is mostly in the ranked high elo, so maybe just put Solo or Duo or Trio Queue in ranked, and leave Dynamic in everything else? also I am going to have faith in Riot that they will at least solve some the problems every one has with Dynamic Queue

The only thing you said that was correct is that you'll get downvoted.

Aneura1 votes

Saying that soloQ showed your rank compared to others is wrong. Explain how playing in a team game with 4 other people shows how good you are by yourself. A group game cannot truly rank how good on person is unless that person is stomping. Even in that realm you have to factor in all the variables. Get fed off your lane opponent on an OP champ and carry the game? How is that about your individual skill. You are basing your ego off of what happened against one person who may or may not play that lane regularly. The game is about communication and yes there can be times when a pre-made doesn't communicate well just like a random group of individuals. Same goes for how a random group of individuals can click and shit stomp the other team. What's different than before. Play a support style champ win lane and have your team feed or have bad positioning can cost a game the same as getting paired with a toxic pre-made. Oh you got camped by a jungler / top duo what's different than solo Q that existed as well.

I say that people are upset because they have constructed this belief that what they did in the solo lane, only a fraction of what the game is about, is equal to their true skill level at the game. Instead of viewing this as a waste of time (fyi that puts you on permanent tilt) look for ways to bridge the gap. I play solo, with a friend or in a group of 3 or 4 sometimes. It all depends. I win more games solo than I do with friends, but one thing I rarely ever do is rage. I play, I do my best sometimes that's not game winning. Sometimes I carry sometimes I get carried and provide support to my team. At the end of the day my goal is to win and that requires communication and fighting through the toxicness that comes from players thinking they are better than they are. Trying to lead without being a jackass. Making suggestions over demands, but too often in SoloQ I have seen the same toxic nature that I read on these boards about DQ. Players take the team game and try to make it about themselves and their accomplishments. At the end of the day the ranks are not important and it really is about your own personal ego. You want to feel important and special in this game, but you can do that just by playing your best.

You can say that makes me casual or not a hardcore player, but when I have time I spam games like anyone else. I'll play for 8 hours to 10 hours straight in soloq mode. I want to win I want my rank to go up, but it does't always have to be about me getting a quad kill in a game. I care about making the play that wins the game not the play that I can touch myself over.

The claim that ranked integrity going down is unprovable outside of your anecdotal evidence. Even that shows contradictions. Posts about pre-mades dominating followed by pre-mades losing terribly and raging at the solo q player. If in your mind you could carry a group of randoms past another group of randoms than it should be no different in a pre-made, but then team play enters the field. No different than in solo Q when a champ got fed and you focused that one player hard and shut them out later in the game.

I understand that you feel slighted. That your gaming experience, which is so tied to your ego is being damaged. That is not riots problem. WoW went through much the same things when arenas were introduced and cross realm pvp was introduced. Everyone said it would destroy the game that people would not stand for it yet the game is still going strong today because someone will play. Maybe not you maybe not the other elitest who think they are actually doing something with their lives through this game, but people will play. I see so many posts here about having problems on smurf accounts, which is the real cancer for any game. Ruining the experience of new players does not increase the number of players. How many potential good players stopped before they started because they could not even grasp the game because 2 seconds in a smurf slapped them silly. If you play a smurf you are part of the problem. Not only for new players, but for ruining the lower ranked tiers. Going into a game either demanding respect and trolling when you are not given it or stomping the poor bronze player forced to deal with you ruins that levels ranks. That might have been a win for that player, but they had the odds stacked against them because of your smurf. Where's the difference between that and "omg they are premade". Boosting existed before DQ and ruined the experience for those dealing with it.

TLDR: grow up I don't care what your rank is. There is no competitive rank until you hit a point where you are competing for something other than your ego stroke.

KING ATTILA2 votes

{quoted}

Saying that soloQ showed your rank compared to others is wrong. Explain how playing in a team game with 4 other people shows how good you are by yourself. A group game cannot truly rank how good on person is unless that person is stomping. Even in that realm you have to factor in all the variables. Get fed off your lane opponent on an OP champ and carry the game? How is that about your individual skill. You are basing your ego off of what happened against one person who may or may not play that lane regularly. The game is about communication and yes there can be times when a pre-made doesn't communicate well just like a random group of individuals. Same goes for how a random group of individuals can click and shit stomp the other team. What's different than before. Play a support style champ win lane and have your team feed or have bad positioning can cost a game the same as getting paired with a toxic pre-made. Oh you got camped by a jungler / top duo what's different than solo Q that existed as well.

I say that people are upset because they have constructed this belief that what they did in the solo lane, only a fraction of what the game is about, is equal to their true skill level at the game. Instead of viewing this as a waste of time (fyi that puts you on permanent tilt) look for ways to bridge the gap. I play solo, with a friend or in a group of 3 or 4 sometimes. It all depends. I win more games solo than I do with friends, but one thing I rarely ever do is rage. I play, I do my best sometimes that's not game winning. Sometimes I carry sometimes I get carried and provide support to my team. At the end of the day my goal is to win and that requires communication and fighting through the toxicness that comes from players thinking they are better than they are. Trying to lead without being a jackass. Making suggestions over demands, but too often in SoloQ I have seen the same toxic nature that I read on these boards about DQ. Players take the team game and try to make it about themselves and their accomplishments. At the end of the day the ranks are not important and it really is about your own personal ego. You want to feel important and special in this game, but you can do that just by playing your best.

You can say that makes me casual or not a hardcore player, but when I have time I spam games like anyone else. I'll play for 8 hours to 10 hours straight in soloq mode. I want to win I want my rank to go up, but it does't always have to be about me getting a quad kill in a game. I care about making the play that wins the game not the play that I can touch myself over.

The claim that ranked integrity going down is unprovable outside of your anecdotal evidence. Even that shows contradictions. Posts about pre-mades dominating followed by pre-mades losing terribly and raging at the solo q player. If in your mind you could carry a group of randoms past another group of randoms than it should be no different in a pre-made, but then team play enters the field. No different than in solo Q when a champ got fed and you focused that one player hard and shut them out later in the game.

I understand that you feel slighted. That your gaming experience, which is so tied to your ego is being damaged. That is not riots problem. WoW went through much the same things when arenas were introduced and cross realm pvp was introduced. Everyone said it would destroy the game that people would not stand for it yet the game is still going strong today because someone will play. Maybe not you maybe not the other elitest who think they are actually doing something with their lives through this game, but people will play. I see so many posts here about having problems on smurf accounts, which is the real cancer for any game. Ruining the experience of new players does not increase the number of players. How many potential good players stopped before they started because they could not even grasp the game because 2 seconds in a smurf slapped them silly. If you play a smurf you are part of the problem. Not only for new players, but for ruining the lower ranked tiers. Going into a game either demanding respect and trolling when you are not given it or stomping the poor bronze player forced to deal with you ruins that levels ranks. That might have been a win for that player, but they had the odds stacked against them because of your smurf. Where's the difference between that and "omg they are premade". Boosting existed before DQ and ruined the experience for those dealing with it.

TLDR: grow up I don't care what your rank is. There is no competitive rank until you hit a point where you are competing for something other than your ego stroke.

You fucking potato...a team of players that are really good players independently will always be a better team than a team of players that suck individually.

You're like saying that Individual skill has no value.

Aneura1 votes

[{quoted}](name=KING ATTILA,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hUE6B2LV,comment-id=00100000,timestamp=2016-07-01T02:45:59.051+0000)

You fucking potato...a team of players that are really good players independently will always be a better team than a team of players that suck individually.

You're like saying that Individual skill has no value.

I'm saying that your individual skill cannot be measured accurately in a solo Q ladder because their is a team factor. A team of better skilled individuals can lose to lesser players who are working together focused on the objectives or made a better comp. Yes having a team full of highly skilled players gives you an advantage.

People are hell bent that they are not able to get a rank based on how good they are individually, but in a team game that is not truly possible. You can get a rank, but if you achieve that rank by getting paired against a sub par player in your lane and stomping them to a point of being unstoppable you aren't showing how good you are compared to the entire enemy team. Just that you can stomp one guy and have a snowball champ.

The game is about team coordination.

KING ATTILA1 votes

{quoted}

I'm saying that your individual skill cannot be measured accurately in a solo Q ladder because their is a team factor. A team of better skilled individuals can lose to lesser players who are working together focused on the objectives or made a better comp. Yes having a team full of highly skilled players gives you an advantage.

People are hell bent that they are not able to get a rank based on how good they are individually, but in a team game that is not truly possible. You can get a rank, but if you achieve that rank by getting paired against a sub par player in your lane and stomping them to a point of being unstoppable you aren't showing how good you are compared to the entire enemy team. Just that you can stomp one guy and have a snowball champ.

The game is about team coordination.

"The game is about team coordination"

Yeah, and if the guy that stomped his lane does not coordinate with his team of 4 randoms to win, then he'll lose!

Tell me again how team coordination was a less important factor in Solo Queue?

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