ARAM - Removing Warmogs without nerfing the heck out of poke was a terrible idea

Scuffproof·6/1/2018, 12:27:59 AM·51 votes·19,885 views

Okay okay, you can have Warmogs if you want, that item wasn't really balanced as well. But please, PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD finally give us something that makes poke less obnoxious. Poke has been the most overpowered play style on ARAM since the game mode's inception. After 5 years it's time to finally fix that. For example by giving every class some sort of Second Wind-ish item that regenerates some health after you've been hit, idk. Certain comps are just close to unbeatable because of poke and it's making the game mode a lot less fun than it could and should be. Please, it's been 5 years.

56 Comments

Smooch Da Pirate6/1/2018, 5:31:09 AM15 votes

I actually agree here. I like pretty much all of the changes, but removing warmogs has made it so games are heavily one sided much more often.

Hextech OwI6/1/2018, 1:53:49 AM13 votes

I honestly think Riot should create an ARAM balance team. Not only would it contribute to make ARAM a lot more healthier and fair but also probably more enjoyable than it already is.

IziMytTJd76/1/2018, 2:07:48 AM13 votes

By the time you could get warmogs and its passive, poke became mostly meaningless in the game. At that point it's all about who can get a good initiation.

Acheron166/1/2018, 11:30:43 AM9 votes

Removing Warmog's just shoved tanks back into garbage tier, just like they were prior to the addition of Warmog's in ARAM.

They were very strong once they got Warmogs and it needed to be changed, but just removing it isnt the solution.

Being able to regen HP at least to 50% HP would have been a decent compromise, but I guess Riot already did their ARAM balance pass for the year...

0 Hogapu6/1/2018, 11:08:00 AM4 votes

Making warmog regen up to 66% HP would be a good compromise.

FirewaterDM6/1/2018, 8:41:47 PM4 votes

eh I miss warmogs but then again it never seemed THAT stupid in aram since it gave tanks/shitty ARAM champs something they could do to deal with long range/lot sof damage

Sire Hippington6/1/2018, 6:31:32 PM3 votes

I think removeing Warmongs was actually the right call, the item was broken for aram. However, they didn't do ANYTHING for compensation, nothing for sustain, no replacement as raw HP item(Warmongs on some champs wasn't just about the regen), nothing about some champs like soraka that feel rather usless witrhout cause the 50%reduced healing on others destroys her kit.

So yea, warmongs need to go from aram, but we also do need compensation for that and riot did nothing on that end.

Tychusfindlay9186/1/2018, 2:39:13 PM3 votes

The counter to poke comps has always been snowball which is an insane engage tool.

WhatHappenedWas6/1/2018, 6:07:14 PM3 votes

As a person who only has time to play ARAMs any more I think the changes seem pretty painful. Matches are usually pretty lopsided in ARAM, you know that going in. But things like dark harvest and warmogs added a bit of balance to things are that not inherently balanced. I am reserving judgement till I see some of the changes because I feel like butchers bridge is not a great place to personally get a feel for balance since the the field of view, at least in my opinion is much tighter. It is hard to keep a Kai'Sai poke in mine if their completely off your screen. So I will just go over what I have seen on the from my few games since the update.

There is no risk versus reward when you nerf the heck out of dark harvest. Did it need a nerf? Probably, it promoted snowball comps and a much faster pace of play. Which meant if you got what should have been an amazing late game hyper carry they were far less fun, because by late game there were at least one or two champs that could absolutely blow you up. But on the other hand it gave the tanks some teeth without having to sacrifice their front line tanking and initiating. I will admit I am not really sure how you would balance dark harvest. It did wonderful things for a mundo making him more than just a hard to kill annoyance and got rid of a lot of the wet noodle fights. But on the other hand it also meant that a halfway fed Irelia became practically unstoppable. As it stands right now it is an extremely painful balance tweak for melee assassins.

As for warmogs it was cancer. I should not be able to build a full tank Veigar and still have 800+ ap by the end of the game. I know it would be a lot of work but if you hard coded classes into tanks bruisers assassins mages et all into champions you could give them class specific items. It would discourage off meta play for sure but we have already seen that Riot is not the biggest fan of that. You could also build in proximity sensors like gargoyles stone plate. For instance something that is similar to warmogs that is ARAM specific that gains increased regeneration the more allies you have around you. That way you don't have a single bruiser able to hold back a three man push. But if your tank survives the fight there is a reward for holding the line till your team can back you up again. That way your tank is also ready for the initiate when the time comes.

A lot of what happens in ARAM has to do with the nature of the disorganized team. It is rare that you can come up with high level plays or have a team that is capable of reading each others play styles and reacting accordingly. When that does happen it doesn't really matter (to a point) what your comp is. Good coordination will almost always outdo balance issues in team selection.

To the people who are saying your should never be hit by a skill shot in ARAM, that is the perspective that I tend to see coming in from ranked players who are used to playing in a somewhat polite lane setting. Slipping between one or two skill shots in lane is a respectable skill, when you have as many as five players all spamming poke at around three to five second intervals your going to get hit some. Sometimes you have to take the poke instead of a team mate taking it as well. If shaving off as much as several hundred of my life means the difference early game of the enemy team getting a couple hundred gold you better believe that I am going to move in front of that shot.

The issues in ARAM are more player based that game balance based. You start at level three with a good chunk of a full item so people go in and dive as though they were a full built carry from the start. It is not unusual to around thirty kills between both teams by the twelve minute mark. Either that or you will see one team hiding under tower hoping to passively gain enough gold that their first back is effective enough to get them their first full item, while the team that is in control has gained a potential 240 gold difference in just the first three waves. But these are all playstyle problems not things that Rito can balance or force people to do.

tl;dr: Aram will never be actually balanced, your always going to see things that make you face palm. The current balance on the bridge favors cc/poke comps without much recourse for tanks. Some of that is things that Rito can fix some of that is players faults. I feel for the guys at Rito trying to keep this a fun if off kilter game style.

[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

Solidair36/1/2018, 3:22:37 PM2 votes

Poke will always be annoying, but Warmogs is obnoxious, too.

I'd consider a return of Warmogs if it only healed the tank back up to 2/3 health

FurriesAreHot6/1/2018, 1:27:32 PM2 votes

I do wish we got some other lesser health regen item, but I still like this better. Yes, poke comps are annoying. But by the time you get warmogs, you're long past ready to full engage. Poke comps usually lose to hard engages.

Leto GT6/1/2018, 8:33:14 PM2 votes

I'm a aram spamer and I think this version is amazing. I wish the map was not that long but it's fine. Warmog had nothing to do in aram. Poke is great when enemy has no engage tool or sustain. It's especially strong in early game. But now we reach lvl6 way faster so early game doesn't really exist anymore. Hence I think poke is weaker than what it used to be.

joemcjoejoe6/2/2018, 3:32:42 AM2 votes

I agree with this comment, and I will add this. Tanks just feel generally bad in this mode as of this patch. Lets not forget that now crit does true damage once an IE is purchased. This makes building tank stats (armor, mr) seem pointless since they are ignored with the true damage. There is a complete lack of health sustain options and there is no itemization path to counter the true damage. This makes tanks feel helpless late game.

NekoniClaws6/2/2018, 9:56:24 AM2 votes

Hey, they removed warmogs and gutted adcs, that means there's only ONE balance issue left in ARAM, which is poke! They've done a great job.

(is my sarcasm showing?)

IDK the old balance wasn't 'balanced', but it was rarely the warmogs games that felt uninteractive. We had a clear 'win by' point to aim for.

Despìca Bìll6/2/2018, 1:01:23 PM2 votes

The mode is a joke. A fun joke, which I play often for its brevity, but a joke. Even the ubiquitous League retards can tell who's going to win before the match starts. Yi, Lux, Veigar, Ornn, Sona? Yup.

Anint6/3/2018, 8:49:20 PM2 votes

I am only an ARAM Player, because I am 40 and have a family. ARAM becomes more about item management relative to the team composition.

Its simple. Riot has messed up by removing Warmongers. The item wasn't well balanced to begin with. You had to get 3k hp before it worked, and 8 seconds after an attack It also only provided more HP unless you could get out of combat. This meant it was perfect for a Tanks and good for an AP Classes. It was horrible for AD Classes. AP Classes only take Warmongers when the enemy team has lots of poke. This cost the AP Class extra burst damage. (Exception being Veigar who builds more attack power as the game progresses.

At the same time, the game I realize isn't designed around ARAM. Therefore the only solution in my eyes is to A Make MR and AR better in ARAM, or give an item that heals more I personally think Warmongers was a better solution. The AOE Team is is a nice to have, but not very well balanced cause everyone runs into the heals at the same time to get the heal. It would be smarter if the heal only worked for the team grabbing it.

Saianna6/1/2018, 11:39:16 AM1 votes

I wonder, did Riot also remove BT from ARAM?

Kurt Hyzan6/11/2018, 4:00:06 PM1 votes

My 2 cents : Nerf overall mana regen by 30%

AbiwonKenabi6/11/2018, 4:09:16 PM1 votes

I don't mind them removing it, but there is no replacement for it. There isn't a comparable big ticket health item to combat true damage sources and there's no other reliable way to regen health beyond Champion kits to combat poke. I would have liked to see at the very least some kind of big health source that maybe dropped the massive regen passive of Warmogs but still give some of the other stats. Or an idea I've seen others mention: the passive only works to like 50% health or something like that.

There is definitely a gaping tank itemization hole in ARAM right now. And with the new reroll bench (which is excellent) poke is even more prevalent.

Spoo8/27/2018, 6:44:18 PM1 votes

{quoted}

Okay okay, you can have Warmogs if you want, that item wasn't really balanced as well. But please, PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD finally give us something that makes poke less obnoxious. Poke has been the most overpowered play style on ARAM since the game mode's inception. After 5 years it's time to finally fix that. For example by giving every class some sort of Second Wind-ish item that regenerates some health after you've been hit, idk. Certain comps are just close to unbeatable because of poke and it's making the game mode a lot less fun than it could and should be. Please, it's been 5 years.

Snowball counter's poke champions hardcore. How do you counter poke. Hard engage or healing. (Yes healings nerfed on ARAM for good reason). Warmogs is.. lets face it. an overtuned item both for Summoner's Rift and especially ARAM.

ARAM is meant to not be able to regen via base mechanics. This basically just thwarts that mindset...so much so that it is a standard 6th item pick up anymore...on champions that should not be picking it up at all because they know that as long as the map is one lane they can safely cower behind their teammates and recover. At they very least, they should not be back to full health in one wave. This item should have about 2-3 times the time before it turns on in ARAM or it should be required for you to be in proximity of a minion within the last 'X' seconds. Otherwise its totally abuseable if you can full heal yet contest nothing.

I've had sooo many games now end just because this power threshold is finished and remaining health after teamfights means nothing because i can always tank a turret, walk away, and be full health a few seconds later.

My last game of ARAM i had like 7 Warmogs picked up and only about 2 legitimate tanks. As a 6th item survivability option on ARAM it tops almost all choices.

2Charmnot2Charm6/1/2018, 6:14:56 PM1 votes

I think it's fine long as your team actually mans up and all in the poke champions.

I seen way too many people just sitting back letting the enemy poke champs poke for free instead of threatening to kill them if they go for any damage.

Modl Ryden l6/1/2018, 4:58:44 PM1 votes

They've already made the 'poking phase' less evident. They increased EXP rates so champions can get their ultimates sooner. Don't forget each level up grants HP and Mana that isn't inhibited by greivous wounds as they're added not restored. The AoE health relics are also a good counter measure to poke, just don't be a selfish player and gather your teammates for a small reprieve.

And a final argument as any troll or level minded player would tell you, git gud at dodging poke.

"but point-click poke!" Then wat da fak are you doing in point click range? It's called respecting their poke.

Shriker Alpha6/10/2018, 11:07:01 AM1 votes

DE Logic: Life-Regeneration while you murder the enemy team is good. Life-Regeneration while your team is murdered is bad.

Your Team is missing an important shield when the tank decides to lay back and heal back up. 6 seconds to get it going and 20 seconds for the full health bar. That is nearly 30s where you are not contributing anything. ADC can sustain so much health. Even AP Champs can heal with Gunblade. But tanks... These days ARAM games don't even last that long (10-15min normally) where you could your Warmog's passive (3000 HP) even going. I see many tanks now building damage because not its just not worth anymore to build tank.

1-2 ADC, 2 AP and 1-2 Tanks who build AP, that's what I usually see after the removal of Warmogs. YAY

om4006/9/2018, 10:37:36 PM1 votes

They should've thrown in a crappy replacement at least. Like how instead of rabbadon's in 3v3 we have that wooglets garbage instead. Whatever but at least there is a trade of some sort.

There's no point in tanking in ARAM now. Think about it, it's ARAM, whoever get's closest? EVERYONE HIDES BEHIND THEM for the rest of the match. So if you're a tank, guess what? You're entire existence in the match is now just to die so your team can have the courage to attack.

What are you going to do? Thornmail, SV, </add your 1000 armor tank items here> and guess what? If you're the only 1 taking damage from 5 enemies (even if they're all freaking rumble or some other weak champ) you're still going to die first. Every. Single. Time.

So basically nerfing warmogs was nerfing every single tank in the game for ARAM. That heal is very necessary and no other item really does it unless you're buying 5 potions every time you die which I guess now is doable since youre going to be dying every 2 minutes now if you're a tank.

Núrse MeÐúsÂ6/1/2018, 6:41:18 PM

Warmogs was broken in ARAM. the whole point of the no recall restrictions and life sustain nerfs on the map is so that people can actually die and not be at full health all the time. Warmogs has no place in aram. There are plenty of other health items to choose from.