Potential Buffs for the Vertically Challenged Master of Evil?

Archmage Icewind·5/13/2015, 12:42:28 AM·2 votes·810 views

Background Information

Ever since Veigar 's DFG "compensation" change, he's been in a worse spot. He's been hovering around 47% winrate in ranked solo que, which while not as bad as some other champions is still definitely not ideal. It's been a while since he was changed, so people have had time to get used to him, and he's still having a hard time. Therefore, I would ask/hope for some buffs, or at least reasoning as to why there shouldn't be any. To that end, I've developed a few small ideas for buffs, which I would like to get a discussion going around.

Buffs

Note: I feel that not every buff listed here should go through, as the reason for listing so many is to attempt to offer many options, not just one, in the form of ideas and suggestions. In particular, I feel some combinations of ideas should not go through together no matter what, as he could be too strong with certain combinations.

Laning Buffs

  1. Give him some form of sustain, to help out with his lane phase. I know he has his passive, but his mana costs are high enough that it's really not that useful on its own, at the very least, not early game. Potentially give him a bonus for last-hitting with abilities, something like health or mana back when you kill a minion with an ability? It could even be put on Dark Matter to give it some use for waveclearing, and creating a choice for the Veigar between getting the extra Ability Power, or sustaining in lane better.

  2. Change Veigar 's Ability Power passive to be on all abilities, not just his Baleful Strike. This would make it easier for him to farm and lane while still also being able to poke, and would also open up interesting strategies such as maxing Dark Matter for higher farm but weaker combat ability while laning. This could both add to his lategame stacks as well as emphasize his laning weakness and vulnerability to ganks. If nothing else, it would help with getting stacks lategame while clearing large waves quickly.

  3. Change Veigar's Baleful Strike so that it gives twice as many stacks if you kill 2 minions with one cast. This would encourage careful timing and positioning with Q in order to maximize AP gain, and reward interesting and calculated play. In addition, it adds a layer of decision-making: "Is it worth temporarily putting myself in a dangerous position in exchange for some extra Ability Power?"

Combat Buffs

  1. Reduce the delay on Dark Matter, or increase its size. The way it is right now, it is incredibly difficult to land Dark Matter without first landing Event Horizon, and it is difficult to land Event Horizon without some other form of set-up. This leads to it being very hard to actually fully combo someone, and very few situations where Dark Matter ends up being useful. With some changes to either its drop speed, so you could attempt to hit someone with it without set-up, or its size, so it can be better used as a zoning tool as well as damage with some good estimation, Dark Matter could become a very useful skill.

  2. Make Event Horizon have some sort of effect while it is still forming, potentially in the form of a slow or a dash stopper. Currently, Event Horizon has to materialize for 0.5 seconds before actually doing anything, in addition to its cast time, making it fairly easy to simply dash away. If it slowed around the edges while it was still forming, it would help to have at least something if you landed it right. Alternatively, if it stopped dashes while forming, it could still be a useful ability when chasing after someone with a lot of escape, especially if you cast it right before they dashed. Alternatively, it could also be used defensively, like if someone such as Leblanc was trying to kill Veigar. Veigar could place down event Horizon as Leblanc was dashing onto him, and use that moment to retreat out of range. As it is now, it's not that useful except for a small amount of zoning after a delay.

  3. Make Event Horizon have a longer delay, but stun people in the center as well. This way, Event Horizon would be a much stronger "don't go into this area" zoning tool, as opposed to currently being a "stand inside OR outside of this area" ring. It would be something people would have to avoid and be fairly careful about, because if you don't get out by the time the delay is up you'll get stunned, and Veigar could follow that up with his combo.

  4. Increase Primordial Burst's scaling with Veigar's AP while removing the scaling with the target's AP. This way, Veigar wouldn't have such a hard time against AD champions in mid, and would also have an easier job bursting down priority targets who use AD. The way it is currently, it is very difficult to fight people who scale with Attack Damage until very late game, and bruisers completely destroy Veigar. With a change here, Veigar could have an easier time fighting anyone using Attack Damage, and not feel bad about ulting someone who doesn't have much, or any, Ability Power.

  5. Give Primordial Burst some form of utility. Right now, Veigar's ult is pretty much a point-and-click nuke that is either enough to kill someone, or isn't. Potential buffs could include giving it some form of movement speed steroid, perhaps on killiong people with it, so Veigar can get away or continue pursuing enemies after combo'ing someone down. Alternatively, it could have a stun or root attached to it, so that Veigar could use it to initiate his combo, going R-E-W-Q instead of E-W-R-Q. To compensate, scaling with the target's AP could be reduced, or its overall scaling could be reduced.

Conclusion

In conclusion, I find Veigar to be a very fun champ, however he is missing just a little bit to bring him into a good spot. I've offered a few ideas and suggestions on what to change, and would love to hear other ideas, comments, and feedback and get a discussion going. Do it, for Veigar !

22 Comments

CreationFlaw5/13/2015, 1:12:29 AM2 votes

Unless you're spamming your W for no reason or inefficiently using your Q, you shouldn't actually have that many mana problems. I find it super easy to just Q stack throughout the laning phase while getting harass in because I time the ability and use placement. Lategame scaling into a one click burst mage is fine by me. I don't care if my early game is weak when the enemy APC, or even assassin, can get one shot if they build full ad. Hell, if you have proper timing, the stun isn't even that bad. All I want is W to come down quicker and I'm happy.

Very Hard Engage5/13/2015, 12:56:22 AM1 votes

all of the things you mentioned are too strong and would put veigar over the edge.

he needs reliability and a skill that can save his life, his E doesn't do that like it used too. that makes him a very squishy sitting duck.

he doesn't need more utility, he needs something to be able to playmake, something that every other midlaner has.

LoLKiru5/13/2015, 1:27:12 AM1 votes

Arn't they lowering the delay on his E even more down to .5 seconds (from .75 seconds)?

I recall seeing that on the PBE somewhat recently (like, within this PBE cycle), will edit my post if I find it

Edit: http://www.surrenderat20.net/2015/04/428-pbe.html

Pretty sure its actually .75 on live, it was 1.25 but they removed the .5 second casting delay (technically anyway; its still there but its at the very start of the skill), I originally thought it was .5 on live too but it is apparently still .75.

Trídent5/13/2015, 1:33:06 AM1 votes

Most are those buffs are too much, it'll make Veigar broken imo

More subtle buffs would be better, preferably on the defensive side