No cost that they don't use mana, energy or even health as a cost for their abilities. Some of these Champs include Riven, Yasuo, Rumble, Tryndamere and Gnar.
Is this something you'd like to change? Are they balanced? If not, what should be done to balance them?
They basically make resourceless champions and say "they have a weaker X, weaker that, can be killed if Y" But in reality they are almost always better or just as good as mana users that have to suffer high cooldowns and mana costs or go oom if they spam.
They aren't unbalanced; they simply shift the meta of the game towards a new meta, sort of like the mobility creep.
IF you look at DotA, if you cast two spells you're oom for the rest of laning phase.
In League, even mana champions can spam spells pretty easily with built-in mana regen abilities or low costs.
I think it's fine as it is - it makes the game a little more diverse and interesting IMO.
I guess I wish Katarina didn't exist
I think that most of the manaless champions are balanced at the moment, especially if they have an alternate resource that they use.
Yasuo pays for his manaless-ness with a weak early game and an okay midgame. He only has conditional mobility and Wind Wall has a long cooldown, so he still has to be careful with what he does.
Rumble has heat, and while heat management is probably easier than it should be, it does gate him to a degree. Mages can cast-cast-cast in teamfights, while Rumble only gets a certain number before he overheats. Again, he has something to manage.
Tryndamere is resourceless, but also suffers in teamfights due to his inability to stick to priority targets and his general squishy nature. Built full damage, Trynd is forced to use ult early in fights, which forces him into a splitpush role - and that has counterplay.
Gnar is balanced now that his Mega form lasts a shorter amount of time. While he can be devastating in a teamfight if he hulks out at the right time, it's tricky to keep him a hair-trigger from transformation. If he does hulk out too early, his team loses the potential for a fight and has to back off, lest the enemy team engage on them while Gnar is as squishy as the carries.
Riven is obnoxious to play against, and perhaps slightly too strong. However, her stun has a low range and she generally exists as a pure damage dealer due to how the scaling on her shield works. Q's long cooldown also hurts her in fights, since it's most of her damage outside of AAs.
Manaless champions can feel frustrating to play against, since they don't have MUCH to manage in terms of ability costs, but they're far from broken.
No mana champions are so broken. Please don't listen to anyone who says otherwise because obviously some of these champions like "Yasuo" people keep defending are just defending him so he don't get nerfed as Yasuo is lots of peoples mains and pretty much in mid every single match I play literally. 1 out of 3 matches, or almost 1 out of 2 matches, there is a yasuo I end up against in mid. He just constantly harasses you, spams tornados, to be honest, his passive shield needs to be gone from game, then i'd be happy. People will come defend him tho just cause they play him.
Vladamir
is pretty OP early game cause of no mana issues, hell, he doesn't even has HP issues as by the time you get back to your lane, he is back to 100% HP, and leveled past you and now gonna ROFLstomp you.
Zed..... Just hits incredibly hard as possible, and doesn't run out of mana. His skill shot almost always lands since it's so quick.
For the above, debates are not up to argue. You're wrong. You can argue with Gnar, tryn, and garen, and kat, and the others. Kat is pretty squishy, I can take most kats, but if they just farm under the turret, again, you'll be the one returning while Kat just stays there 100% with like the lowest cooldowns in the game lollolololol
They should never have even come into existence. Reason : Riot doesn't actually seem to know jack shit about actually balancing anything. You can only go so far with statistics (i.e.: book-learned knowledge), but book-smarts isn't the real-world, and Riot's balance-team clearly lacks any sense of street-smarts.
Speaking of Street-Smarts versus Book-Smarts... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-U6bSaVKs4&fmt=18
Resourceless-Champions should NOT have ANY form of spammable HARD CC !
(cough
cough)
im fine with manaless chamions but i feel that they need just slightly longer cooldowns like and 
then they would be fine
Lumping resource-less champions together and labeling them as over-powered is like analyzing LeBlanc and concluding that all AP mana assassins are overpowered.
It really comes down to the individual champion. Not all resource-less champions are good. Champions such as Renekton for example falls off drastically late game because of his trade-off for having no resource cost. He needs to hit some minions and build up a fury bar in order for him to compete with most other champions late game, something he will have trouble doing before a team fight.
Champions such as Rumble or Gnar are on the strong side, but still relatively balanced. Rumble can't spam his abilities without over-heating, and his range is very short. Gnar is very squishy in mini-gnar form, and he needs to time his Rage bar carefully to use his abilities in team fights.
Yasuo is sort of an ambiguous case. He is terrible against other melee champions, but he is very effective against skill shot based champions. Against champions such as Jax or Diana, he is just a pushover. However, if he was against Ezreal for example, Yasuo can negate a lot of Ez's damage.
Then there are Riven and Katarina. Riven is undeniably OP. She has essentially no trade offs for being resource-less. Her combo (~810% AD) has more damage than most mana-based champions. Only champions with very strong early game or abilities to prevent Riven from using her combo can fight her.
Katarina is the same as Riven. Unless you have point and click CC, she can finish off a target and shunpo to the next one before you even have time to mouse over her for a skill shot.
its fine on
its broken on
I dont have any problem with no cost champions.
The only thing that slightly annoys me is that Rumble has a no cost poke he can use on cooldown. But it isnt that big a deal.
The rest I literally dont have a problem with and think are fine.
They are bullshit.
I like not having to worry about a Mana Bar honestly, Riot's observation that being OOM when teasing URF in 2014 was boring and detracted from the fantasy of the champion was accurate but it would be incredibly difficult to balance properly as some Champions are simply obscene (see URF Sona 2k15 with like 69% Winrate)
I think they need higher cooldowns to compensate for this gift though. 's absolutely stupid with 40% CDR, can escape stupid easily with his Whirlwind even after picking a bad fight or getting caught out. I like how Riot handled Rage and Heat though, it makes it so a kit requires practice to pull off efficiently unless you want to overheat on Rumble and become useless in a fight (because Rumble does pretty much nothing if he can't ult/flamethrower) and if you don't want to go Mega immediately then you can't be hyper-aggressive in lane (though honestly I think his R should have a 'Turn on Mega Form when his passive isn't on cooldown, give the ability like a ten second cooldown if used to engage Mega Gnar to balance it out)
here is the evidence that they are currently balanced an fine. They don't get pick/ban in all elo's and don't hold over 60% winrate.
people know how to play against them and make it work
Resourceless champions are ones that can (and usually are) be balanced exclusively around their cooldowns.
I would not actually increase their cooldowns. CDR is good on them, but not that good. And balancing their cooldowns is dependent on entirely on what they want/need to do.
Yasuo and Riven are both light fighters. Using rapid fire spells and mobility to control the skirmish. And they actually need their CD to be low. But in Rivens case, she does not Really have enough synergy with her spells to actually justify 40% CDR. So we shouldn't balance her CDs like she would have 40%. All of which would target her Early game. A point in the game where she's suppose to be strong.
In contrast, Garren uses his spells mostly for defense and utility. And has less need for CDR. Though there are good items with CDR in them.
But Resourceless champs should be balanced around other means as well. For starters, With few exceptions, many Resourceless champs have poor health sustain. (especially riven) And in a way, this counter balances the fact that they basically don't have long term limiters.
Then again, champions that are made to dive you. Like riven, would not even be affected by having a resource. They would kill you before something like mana, ever become an issue.
They should never exist.
I just need to know why. Who sat down at Riot and said, "You know what? [Insert Champion] doesn't need mana."
Also, I'm surprised you didn't name Katarina or Garen on that list. There's Shyvana as well.
preping for all these nerds to QQ about Yasuo
Rumble - Tanky mage with infinite safe wave clear. Not invincible but super annoying to lane against. The constant barrage of slow forks and shield+flamethrower trades makes you feel like you simply can't win the lane. Not to mention the ult from 2 screens away while the jungler helps secure the kill under tower if Rumble's too low to dive.
Katarina/Gnar - I would say these two are a mistake to be resourceless for similar reasons to Rumble. They have too much poke and wave clear and its often overbearing on their opponents because you just can't get them out of lane.
I think Kat/Gnar/Rumble should all be redesigned as mana users.
Tryndamere/Yasuo - I think resourceless isn't as annoying because they have very little to mitigate poke. Resourceless does help them farm excessively compared to someone like Talon who has to use mana to secure cs occasionally.
Riven - Needs energy or mana redesign. Way too much CC/mobility/damage to have zero resource management. "But she's squishy when her shield and mobility isn't there" isn't a sufficient excuse to why she is allowed to constantly spam useful abilities. I separated her from the prior group because she's the worst offender.
In a vacuum, no cost champs are perfectly balanced/balanceable, however, since there are only a few of them and the vast majority of champs use mana, it offers very clear and noticeable advantages that often make players feel like it is an unfair advantage. I bet if the game were balanced around resourceless champs initially and then they introduced a small number of mana using champs who were gated early by resource cost but then had ungodly amounts of late game scaling to compensate (which most do relative to the original resourceless champs of league before the more toxic influx we've seen recently), they would make players rage and hate on them because they were so strong. basically, I think that for the most part, resourceless champs are only seen as particularly oppressive largely because they are in the minority and their unique strengths aren't something most other kits are designed to be able to handle at this point.
It's very difficult to balance a resourceless champion in a way that makes them satisfying to play.
First and foremost, there needs to a self-punishing system to ensure that they don't spam their abilities, or are at least able to spam their abilities in a way that doesn't make them toxic. So in general, a cost-less ability must have less value or more necessity that makes the CD an important limiting factor.
Most of them default to the second method, making their kit have extreme moments of power that simply don't give enough opportunity to counter them. This is why I think the current given resourceless champions are unhealthy. Especially ones like Tryndamere and Riven, who have so many other things wrong with their kit.
I'm fine with them, they are all snowball champs.
Tbh I think people like Riven or Garen who have NOTHING should rely on a resource called Stamina.
Similar to Overheat, but maybe it can be like
"After casting an ability, when 12 [or whatever you want] passes, all your abilities go on cooldown for X amount of time"
That way they can have low CDs on their spells, while having a vulnerable point in time.
