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Riven has been under-performing for the past 3 patches struggling at a 48% winrate

how do i clímb··23 votes·7,013 views

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/riven/all

She's the lowest Winrate bruiser right now. She hovered at 52-53% for a good 2 years and is now down to 48% winrate

Riven hasn't really been all that amazing since the introduction of the new runes system, but the last few patches it has become more noticeable. There are high elo Riven players constantly saying she isn't in the best right now & it is obvious to see why. There is no reason to pick her because most of the other champions with similar playstyles are just better than her.

Why is she bad?

  • She doesn't have a keystone rune that is a "stand out" on her. Every single keystone is just mediocre on her
  • Her itemisation is incredibly weak
  • Her Scaling into the mid-late game is bad compared to every other bruiser.

Rune Choices

One of the big problems Riven has is that she doesn't have a defined keystone rune. Every keystone rune kinda just feels mediocre on her, but there is definitely nothing that stands out.

The most notable thing is that she doesn't have a viable rune in the mid-late game. Other bruisers either either use Conqueror/PTA to maintain their power in the mid-late game ( Irelia Jax Renekton Kled ) or they have true damage/arm pen scalings on their abilities ( Fiora Camille Darius Gangplank Yasuo )

Just to take a look at the runes she can use:

  • Electrocute; This rune is terrible in lane vs bruisers since you cannot burst them & mid-late it is extremely bad.
  • Comet/Aery; Mediocre runes in lane but they fall off way to hard in the mid-late game to be viable.
  • Press the Attack; Riven doesn't auto attack enough to proc the rune.
  • Conqueror; The wind up time is too long for Riven to activate & then maintain compared to other bruisers.
  • Aftershock; The cooldown is too long for her to take the rune & resolve tree just feels horrible on her.

Basically, Riven does not have any way of scaling into the mid-late game


Itemisation

Again over time she has been dealt the back hand with constant nerfs to the itemisation she uses. She relies on armor penetration to deal damage, but with all the constant nerfs to lethality & armor pen she no longer has the damage she needs.

  • Ghostblade; is mediocre but only really purchased due to the active movespeed letting her get onto her targets easier.
  • Duskblade/Edge of Night; are garbage items now & she can't use either well.
  • Last Whisper; isn't even worth buying. The arm pen it gives is so little that even vs a full armor tank it makes little difference.
  • Lifesteal items (hydra/bloodthirster); Virtually useless ever since the introduction of bramble vest/thornmail grievous wounds.

Right now she is in a spot where she either builds full lethality, becomes glass cannon & still struggles to 1 shot the carries or she builds like a bruiser to survive a little longer but deals no damage.

Once again you can see the trend, the items she purchases do not give her good scaling into the mid-late game.


Her decline in winrate is most likely being ignored because the majority of players think she is "OP" due to that one Riven that popped off in their games, but seriously she needs some help. Riven is under performing heavily compared to what she was capable of in the past.

48 Comments

Onecimus17 votes

Maybe I'm missing something, but why should a high skillcap champion like Riven and Yasuo and Ryze have a higher winrate than 48%? That's why all/most of the high skill cap champions have high winrates and are still viable while low skillcap champions can have high winrates and be about average.

Anyone can tell you that a winrate does not tell the whole story.

But maybe I'm missing something.

PokladnicaZla3 votes

How did Ryze end up in the same pot as Riven and Yas?

how do i clímb2 votes

For clarity, Riven is down from a previous 52-53% winrate (that she held for over 2 years) to a 48% winrate. She's also the lowest win % bruiser in the game.

Winrate aside there are just other champions that do the same thing as Riven but to more effect, with much less of a skillcap requirement.

Camille Plays almost identically to Riven but does it 10x more effectively & has a much lower skillcap.

GayFluffyUnicorn2 votes

Someone seems salty his champ can't carry him anymore. Big misconception a lot of you riven players have. It is the champion that carries you and now that she is in an actual somewhat balanced state you come out of the hole again. These last few years riven has simply been overpowered as all hell. Not fitting keystones is one thing, i know that feeling when just nothign feels good to use but taking her winrate to justify buffs to riven? L M A O.

Apocalypsic2 votes

That entire first half of your statement is nothing but ignorance.

There's a reason Riven is known as the champion you must lose a hundred games on before you can win a hundred. She's mechanically intensive, much more so than the vast majority of the league roster.

On top of that her itemization and keystones continue to get dumpstered and her burst output is destroyed by literally tabis and a single armor item, she doesn't have free pen, true damage, or hybrid damage/scalings like other melee carries..

Riven, as fun as she is, is outdated and requires animation canceling to even have a remotely smooth playing kit. Newer champs like Camille, Fiora, and Irelia for instance already have that build into them from the start and it shows in both carry potential, enjoyment, and ease of use.

At any given moment I can promise you that player playing "OP" Riven is actually trying harder than any player on either team, trying to land perfectly executed combos and positioning on a melee that literally cannot build defensive items lest they cripple their damage output. She's become a chore to carry with in this current game state and needs adjustment to be put back in line with other melee carries.

Práedyth1 votes

Because she is basically the most onetricked champion in the game. I remember that on champion.gg she oftentimes had 70%+ of players with over 100 ranked games. Right now it doesn't say so because the season hasn't been going on for that long and the site seems kind of outdated. With other champions it's not a problem because their playerbase doesn't play them that often and therefore doesn't play around the absolute maximum capabilities of that champion. Those who do are rewarded with winrates above 55%, up to 59% in same cases. Riven's winrate at the same amount of games is a mere 53%. Riven is balanced around her absolute fullest potential. Rivenmains reddit is full of questions on how people are supposed to carry because they simply don't feel like they can as riven, or they quit playing her alltogether.

So if a champions winrate is 48% but the players are all at 50 games or less, then none of them play the champion to his/her fullest potential and the winrate makes sense. But if a champion has a 48% winrate with most of its players onetricking her and having over 500k mastery, then how is that even remotely balanced? You should be rewarded for learning that champion just like with other champions.

On top of that, keep in mind that those previously mentioned winrates occur at around 80 games. The problem is that after some time you learn the champion very well and start climbing (hence the winrate). But you cannot maintain that winrate for that long. At a nearly 60% winrate you climb insanely fast. You cannot improve as fast as your rank does. And as a consequence your winrate will eventually decrease again. So rivens 53% wr at around 80 games is actually her peak winrate, and it falls off beyond that.

Práedyth3 votes

Because she is basically the most onetricked champion in the game. I remember that on champion.gg she oftentimes had 70%+ of players with over 100 ranked games. Right now it doesn't say so because the season hasn't been going on for that long and the site seems kind of outdated. With other champions it's not a problem because their playerbase doesn't play them that often and therefore doesn't play around the absolute maximum capabilities of that champion. Those who do are rewarded with winrates above 55%, up to 59% in same cases. Riven's winrate at the same amount of games is a mere 53%. Riven is balanced around her absolute fullest potential. Rivenmains reddit is full of questions on how people are supposed to carry because they simply don't feel like they can as riven, or they quit playing her alltogether.

So if a champions winrate is 48% but the players are all at 50 games or less, then none of them play the champion to his/her fullest potential and the winrate makes sense. But if a champion has a 48% winrate with most of its players onetricking her and having over 500k mastery, then how is that even remotely balanced? You should be rewarded for learning that champion just like with other champions.

On top of that, keep in mind that those previously mentioned winrates occur at around 80 games. The problem is that after some time you learn the champion very well and start climbing (hence the winrate). But you cannot maintain that winrate for that long. At a nearly 60% winrate you climb insanely fast. You cannot improve as fast as your rank does. And as a consequence your winrate will eventually decrease again. So rivens 53% wr at around 80 games is actually her peak winrate, and it falls off beyond that.

saltran6 votes

{quoted}

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Riven/Top/

49.13% winrate.

This is riot propaganda and it's not allowed in a Riven main's post.

ProfDrDeath1 votes

To put in another point:

Riven right now suffers from the same problem a lot of other AD toplaners suffer: Playing an AD toplaner, especially a squishy one or one that relies on offensive purchases for early power, into another AD toplaner (especially the ranged or juggernaut kind) plain sucks, since you cannot itemize against your opponent to curb his snowballing. AD Juggers don't have that problem, since they have both stupidly high base Armor and high base damages (the latter allowing them to go for non-hybrid Armor items without too much cost).

xelaker8 votes

[sg-lulu] I'm a little ok with this.

Child of the Pit1 votes

I could always pick Garen, but im still approving what you said [sg-lulu]

Tegash6 votes

48% winrate since new runes is not struggling. Especially now that the addition of Conqueror has made it to the game. That would be like saying 52% winrate is busted AF. And yet everybody on Boards complains that Janna, Shaco and Udyr are "weak and in need of buffs" despite having 53%.

Ivern has had a concrete winrate of about 46% since the removal of windspeaker's. Gragas currently has a winrate of 43% (although with the ap scaling damage reduction this might change).

Volibear at his WEAKEST dipped below 30%.

48% is not struggling. I agree that Riven is in a weak spot and the current item setup is unhealthy for her, but please do not overstate the problem.

TyroneWatermelon5 votes

This is the type of champions imo can stay underperforming forever and i couldn't care any less, along with Yasuo, Zed, Fizz, Vayne, Katarina, Fiora, Kha'zix and Rengar. awfully kills the entire gameplay experience to play against them that much that it will be better to leave them underpowered to prevent all the kids from picking them every game.

All in or virgin4 votes

O so you like that no counterplay malphite more? Ic ya bud....

Guys like you crying on reddit are the reason this game went down the drain, but maybe theres hope left :)

Sir Fabi Of The4 votes

{quoted}

This is the type of champions imo can stay underperforming forever and i couldn't care any less, along with Yasuo, Zed, Fizz, Vayne, Katarina, Fiora, Kha'zix and Rengar. awfully kills the entire gameplay experience to play against them that much that it will be better to leave them underpowered to prevent all the kids from picking them every game.

Said the guy who plays malzahar, a point click no (early) counterplay Suppress, in Gold 2, lmfao

TyroneWatermelon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wheelchair Riven,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gcGgpLfo,comment-id=000e0001,timestamp=2018-04-10T17:53:28.365+0000)

Said the guy who plays malzahar, a point click no (early) counterplay Suppress, in Gold 2, lmfao

the "no counterplay early" is just a tradeoff for being pretty useless late game, despite it being his strongest point. Not that riven is all about skillshots either, its about straight button mashing, not even point and click.

about Riven, She's a very popular champion, expect her winrate to be slightly more than on paper, just like Yasuo and Vayne. fun fact, Riven is actually at 50% winrate in Diamond, while there are champions who actually need help and are struggling to bypass the 47% winrate.

DollaMenunaire4 votes

Good.

FrostQueensPlane4 votes

Stop

Ahristocats4 votes

conqueror is shit and failed to fixe the toplane

4 sec delay is a terrible joke

Sir Fabi Of The4 votes

It should be added/noted that the gutting of early CDR has made her early incredible weak on top. Riven used to start off with a bare minimum of 10% cdr, sometimes even 20% (Runes+Masteries) which would quickly be stacked by a brutalizer(RIP) or early game warhammer that builds into GB (Which was a viable item back then) or Black cleaver (Which was changed to an awful build path)

Chalseu4 votes

Ever since patch 5.22 it had been going downhill. Just check the patch notes, worst patch ever.

Riven's itemization is gimicky in my opinion, she isn't a laning phase character anymore. I remember reading somewhere that Riven doesn't hard win any matchup, and I get behind that.

Back in the day (season 5, maybe season 6 ish at the latest) Riven was most often acting as a burst character, with bruiserish aspects as secondary. Essentially a damage focused, bursty melee bruiser. Well, I say bruiser because she built some defense in the items. Nowadays, she is much more of a bruiser that goes for extended fights. And a champion that primarily builds damage, goes for long fights, and doesn't have much defense usually fails. There's a reason Jax isn't build full damage every game, because it just doesn't fit the "extended fight" one

People will say I rant a lot about this, because I have complained about Last Whisper before, but the changes to LW in the marksman update marks a big milestone for a lot of AD characters and casters. I remember LL Stylish mentioning that Zed is only the shadow of himself (no pun intended), in the past he had a lot of possibilities but nowadays it's just the same thing every game. Who builds Last Whisper nowadays ? The only circumstance building it isn't bad is to complete Mortal Reminder. Who builds Ravenous Hydra consistently nowadays apart from niche champions? It used to be way more of a staple.

Before 5.22, old LW and Brutalizer were all the armor pen assassins needed. Those and maybe some armor pen runes allowed them to get all the armor penetration required, and so could itemize with more diverse, non penetration items. Scimitar, BT, Ravenous Hydra, sometimes IE (youmuu's gave crit), Blade or the Ruined King ... You name it. Every AD assassin going the same 3 first items every game nowadays (youmuu's, dusk, cleaver) ... Where is the diversity? Of course there had a price to be paid, if an AD assassin went with armor penetration runes, they essentially gave up a significant amount of laning phase kill pressure ; if they were a jungler (Rengar, Kha ...) they gave up clear speed / healthiness in the clear.

The changes to the armor penetration ecosystem over the years (change of Last Whisper with induced changes to Maw and Youmuu's, then introduction of Duskblade, more changes in the assassin update ...) brought AD casters and assassins in the place they are today. The current state of the game makes it so that, to get a significant amount of armor penetration, you have to commit in 2-3 items a minima, while it is very easy to get some armor to counter it for all kinds of targets: tanks get tank items with lots of armor, carries can get Zhonya's, Tabi, GA. The recent nerf to Tabi did A LOT of good to AD assassins and casters (even though it's not enough), and that's only 10 armor going away. That goes to show how sensitive this group of champions is to their target's armor and their ability to ignore it.

The problem right now is that there are too many items that offer flat armor penetration. That means that if the system is changed so that AD casters/assassins only need 1 or 2 cheap items to have a significantly high amount of penetration, they can always keep on stacking other penetration items and have stupid burst. The game needs a middle ground where assassins get a fairly good amount of penetration quite early on in their item build, but can't stack penetration ever more so that the defensive options they might want open up.

Now is there a solution to this ?

An idea I just had while writing this would be to orient the domination tree (oriented towards helping burst champions) towards adaptive penetration in some way, or rework some rune slots into things that interact with penetration in different ways than sudden impact does. I don't know, Domination first row has only 2 runes so there's a gap to be filled ...

Another idea I had comes back from when Lethality was introduced. Before actually publishing the details of how lethality functions, I made a guess saying that flat armor penetration would be replaced by moderate amount of % total penetration. The problem with flat pen is that it was too feast or famine: either you got penetration before the enemy natural armor scaled enough and so it was super good, or you got it too late because you were behind and it was a bit underwhelming. Having a moderate amount (between 10 and 15%) of total armor penetration on each penetration item would have solved that issue (because by definition it scales with the target's armor) AND would also solve the issue AD Assassins / Casters were going through ever since the changes to LW in marksman update.

Wow that's a lot of text, didn't expect to write that much. Well if you read it all, thanks for your attention :)

Tomosima4 votes

Please Riven main just stop and show yourself out.

Apocalypsic3 votes

After 1.6 million mastery on Riven over several years albiet playing mostly in norms I can say confidently I'm moving to Irelia. Riven is an absolute chore to carry with now and I feel even after her nerfs that Irelia is so much more flexible and satisfying to play and carry with.

Zaghyr2 votes

I agree 100%. Going with what you said, and what another guy said about her not hard-winning any matchups, it has become extremely hard to properly carry as Riven, and it is only getting worse. Playing in norms is a chore, and playing in ranked is a nightmare right now because no matter how hard I win the lane, or take down towers and objectives, or try to make plays with engages and assassinations, it always feels impossible to carry the game because of a number of factors. Itemization, top lane champs' power levels (tanks and juggs), towers are tissue paper, junglers have too much early pressure, bot lane is horribly broken and impossible to kill, and if you are already losing and the other team gets baron, its an almost guaranteed loss. First top lane was frustrating for Riven, now its the entire rest of the game.

Little Padawan3 votes

[{quoted}](name=how do i clímb,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gcGgpLfo,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-04-10T13:56:28.339+0000)

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/riven/all

She's the lowest Winrate bruiser right now. She hovered at 52-53% for a good 2 years and is now down to 48% winrate

So I opened your link. Swapped Global for Diamond+. Winrate went from 48 to 50. Then I swapped from all regions to only NA, and she's sitting on 52% there with a decent play rate %.

High skill cap that's all, she's still a strong champion.

Sir Fabi Of The1 votes

{quoted}

So I opened your link. Swapped Global for Diamond+. Winrate went from 48 to 50. Then I swapped from all regions to only NA, and she's sitting on 52% there with a decent play rate %.

High skill cap that's all, she's still a strong champion.

Most diamond+ Riven players are onetricks or mains, she should have a way higher winrate in that case. Any high elo top laner will confirm that riven is at the lower side of the spectrum of bruisers

Sasogwa2 votes

Which source do you have? I see around 49% winrate accross elos in Korea

how do i clímb1 votes

{quoted}

Which source do you have? I see around 49% winrate accross elos in Korea

https://www.reddit.com/r/Rivenmains/comments/8awvrd/well_that_looks_scary/

Bazooka Blade1 votes

[{quoted}](name=how do i clímb,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gcGgpLfo,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2018-04-10T14:13:31.379+0000)

https://www.reddit.com/r/Rivenmains/comments/8awvrd/well_that_looks_scary/

lol wtf she has a 56% win rate passed 40 mins thats fucking impressive why the hell would you want to buff that monster also having a 5% pick rate ontop of the 56% are you nuts

Step Sis Lux2 votes

44% where? any ss? cuz i see 49

Serevas2 votes

You know I may be way off base because I haven't played Riven in quite some time, but I was under the impression that effective Rivens weave auto attacks in between their abilities through animation cancelling. Hence why she has an up to 50% bonus AD scaling on auto attacks after using abilities through her passive. If that is the case still, then I fail see why PTA is not a viable option for her. It's only 3 autos on the same target.

Additionally I see Viper, who is considered to be one of, if not the best Riven in North America taking Conqueror into most lane matchups.

19 8 9 14 2 votes

The thing with PTA is that at the time you proc it in for example a fast combo almost all of your damage abilitys are on CD and the only thing you have left to empower are your autoattacks, probably your W and at most 1 Q if you started fast combo with an auto.

And the thing with Viper taking Conqueror most of the time if not always, is that from all the options you have, it probably is the best in almost every matchup at the moment compared to the others.

Serevas2 votes

That's fair enough, like I said in my post I haven't played Riven in a long time.

Ignika D2 votes

well top lane cant be only bad things

not seeing some champs viable makes us happy [slayer-jinx-wink]

Jack Garrus2 votes

I don't call it 'low winrate', I simply call it 'karma'

All in or virgin2 votes

Maybe its also worth mentioning that through the dropping playrate mostly dedicated rivenmains play her and thus the winrate was rising again from 44% to 48%. Its still a joke that even experienced rivenmains dont manage to get a winrate better than 50%.

Ultîma1 votes

Sorry to play devil's advocate here OP, but Riven has one of the steepest learning curves in the game on par with Ryze and Azir, which means her winrate will always be sub-50% if she's ever in a balanced spot. Some Challenger players are still notorious Riven 1-tricks who absolutely destroy any matchup they're in due to how they've mastered her mechanics, combos and animation cancels. Moreover, Riven still has a pretty respectable pick rate hovering around 4% with player mastery bringing up her winrate to about 54% after only 50 games. If Riven was brought up to a point where she had a winrate above 50% overall she would be disgustingly broken in high elo.

how do i clímb1 votes

This is where you are wrong. She has always hovered 52-53% winrate for the past 2 years, it's only since the new runes were released that she's seen a decline in her winrate

Práedyth1 votes

Then you should've taken a look at the average amount of games played as riven compared to those other champs. Their winrates should be less than 50% because players starting off with them should have a terrible winrate while those who spend the time learning the champion are rewarded with a much higher winrate. The problem with riven is that most of her players are onetricks. End of last season 70% of players that played riven once or more in ranked, had over 100 games. Right now league of graphs shows you that rivens winrate at 80 games is about 53%. Most other toplaners have a winrate of 55-59% at that point. In my opinion that simply shouldn't be the case. How do low skill toplaners have a much higher winrate when maining them than a proper high skill ceiling champ?

Shadow Hazard1 votes

Why wasn't black cleaver mentioned with items?

Radiant Wukong1 votes

Electrocute/Predator Riven with item 3147 item 3142 item 3074 item 3812 item 3117 item 3814 to absolutely destroys enemy backlines.

Thylas1 votes

Totally Agree with you, thanks for the thread. @Riot please do something. The Meta as Riven OTP is actually depressing... I mean, almost every Champ outdamages,outtanks,outsustains,outscales a Riven. You have to play perfect to be equal with other meta champs (camille,jax,trynd,sion,maokai,irelia,kled, singed) , and with perfect i mean master/challenger level.. summoner 3

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