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I need help with end game decision making.

Mujona·10/2/2014, 5:28:14 PM·4 votes·1,748 views

So this is a "what would you do?" question. I make this forum post because it seems to happen more than I like.

So we come to the end of a game, we are fairly ahead. We just ace the enemy team, but we are low on life, and right near baron. Now there are 3 different plays we can go with. Play 1, is we can try to rush down their base as 5. It was a long drawn out fight, so the enemy might be back up before we can finish the game. There is an open lane, and 2 Nexus turrets left, but it is still a risk. Play 2, the Ultra safe play. We can just go take baron as 5, heal/buy then push for the win together. This is an ok play, but you don't gain as much as you could from it. Still a play option none the less. Play 3, is the split focus of objectives. Where you take your jungle and adc, to take baron; while your other 3 teammates push and take 1 of the nexus turrets. Then you all back, heal/buy and pressure for the win. Now this is semi risky (homeguarded enemies coming up), yet still fairly safe.

Being that I like calculated risk, I choose play 3. We would stand to gain the most from it while still being relatively safe, at most it would add 5 mins to the game for an extremely high chance of victory. Though it seems almost everytime I call for/ put this play in action, my teammates get blood lust in their eyes and they try to end the game. Almost every time they do this, they almost end it (very rarely they do), and the blame comes back on the ones who were "doing baron instead of pushing". Yet they seem to ignore the fact, that without the buffs that baron gives i.e. health regen/damage; they would not been able to push threw that fast too begin with.
Now again I ask, am I doing something wrong here? Should I suicide push for a 50/50 chance at a win? I feel like if they would just follow Play 3, it would add the MAX of 5 mins for at 95% chance of a win instead of 50/50, but that seems like it is just too much to ask sometimes, when they can just "END THE GAME!!"

All input is greatly appreciated. (Playing at mid gold level for those wondering) Edit: I would appreciate upvotes on the post it's self, so we can get more people in on this.

Scenario we are working with: 40min ace; All 5 alive, but with low health; Baron is on the board; You have mid tower/inheb down; Your supers are at your mid lane tower; Both nexus turrets up; Long fight, their jungle/apc will be up in 30/35 sec; Top/Bot Tier 2s still up, but your minions aren't close to them.

Edit: Woah this got allot more response than I thought it would, and helped me a bit. I am thinking about starting a new post series here with "Scenarios" for people too tell how they would handle it, could really help some players with play making.

27 Comments

Wheatloaf10/2/2014, 10:19:25 PM5 votes

Whatever you do, make sure your team is on the same page. Organization wins more games than solo plays.

12tales10/2/2014, 5:53:33 PM5 votes

The enemy team can only come back if there's gold on the map.

If you take Baron, there's nothing left for them to springboard back into the game with.

If you take towers, there's always a risk of getting counter baroned.

I guess my attitude is, why try to knock them out in one punch when you can strangle them just as easily? The safe play that's 100% guaranteed to get you ahead and keep you ahead is always my choice. So - baron, recall, push.

Think about it from the enemy's perspective - the single best thing that could happen to them would be finding you guys in their base at low health, with baron still on the map. The situation you describe couldn't realistically give them greater advantage than that. So why make the only choice that could potentially make that happen?

hadokken10/2/2014, 10:16:19 PM2 votes

at 40 minutes in you're pretty much guaranteed to win with those death timers if you ace them. it only takes about 25 seconds to take down inhib turret/double nexus turret and kill nexus. just rotate who tanks it if you need. 35 seconds is well over the amount of time needed to close out with the inhib down already. i see a lot of games lost because a team goes to get baron instead of finishing the game

ValyrianBlade10/2/2014, 5:44:21 PM2 votes

I think option 3 is never right. If it's late game and the death timers are all fairly high still, you should be able to group 5 and end the game (even without minions, why is everyone so hesitant to tank turrets? ?? adcs can wreck them). If the fight was drawn out (some people will be spawning soon): if you're low health either push as 5 or split push. You should be able to take at least an inhibitor and get out before they spawn. If you're reasonable health but aren't in a position to end as in my first case, take Baron as 5 and then push for an inhibitor if you have time before going to base (or just go to base then push, your option 2). The point is you act as 5. I don't think it's ever ideal to split up after an ace unless your pushing multiple minion waves for multiple inhibitors (I.e. It's mid game and not late game so you can't win off the Ace, and in this case since you're near Baron you should 5 man Baron and then split push). Maybe have 1 person go push mid while the other 4 Baron but otherwise I just don't see it.

Worgslarg10/2/2014, 5:31:42 PM1 votes

It depends on how minion waves are set up. if your creep is in/near their base, by all means end the game off the ace. Post 40 minutes, an ace is usually a win as most teams can simply push the base faster than respawn timers. Now if your minions are on the other side of the map, baron and then split is the right call.

Old Man Teeto10/4/2014, 10:25:46 AM1 votes

End the game.

their jungle/apc will be up in 30/35 sec

This is the only "timer" you gave - assuming they're the first ones to spawn, this is plenty of time

You have mid tower/inheb down; Your supers are at your mid lane tower

You have a spot in which you don't have to tank turrets.

The only reason to NOT end the game is A) the fight was inside your base and there's the 20 second run across map, in which case do Baron.

or B) They have sufficient threat of killing you in the next 15 seconds on respawns.

Iciclewind10/2/2014, 5:46:37 PM1 votes

In the case play 3 is executable you could probably win the game outright. Experienced players can often tell with good accuracy if they can finish the game or not, the general idea is to not take any risks.

redniwediS10/2/2014, 5:50:55 PM1 votes

I voted for play 2. If all three of their inhibs are down (which is the way you made it sound) there should be time to clear baron/dragon/whatever buffs you want while fully healing and preparing for the final push.

However if there's even one inhib standing you should be able to take it down while not risking a throw.

tau4310/3/2014, 8:26:33 AM1 votes

Holding a 4v5 while someone with TP split pushes is really sound if done right. I had a game where a Jax backdoored an Inhib, while the 4 of us just stopped the backs and enemy TP.