Making Jinx's Switcheroo smoother to use

RoseburyNoire·6/28/2017, 1:17:48 AM·55 votes·5,608 views

Hi folks, i'm posting an idea with hopes that a rioter could see it.

The thing could be considered as a tiny buff regarding how often you could switch stances with Jinx's Q. Let me explain the problem : Sometimes, usually in the later stages or the game of if you get really excited early, you would want to switch stances just for 1 auto then go back to the other. However, when you have a huge AS, the 0.9s static cooldwon doesn't allow you to auto once then switch back, the next auto comes out before the CD goes off. Alright, it might not seem a lot to you while reading this, but I've encountered the situation often enough for me to make a post about it. The thing is, maybe if you are a Jinx user, you would want to use in an optimal manner her different attack animations (for kiting mainly).

Let's say you are kiting a Kassadin with pow pow in a huge teamfight and an ennemy Darius isn't very far from you, then the Kassa became so low that he teleports away with less than one of your auto worth of hp. However he is in Fishbones range. You would like to get in Fishbones stance to execute Kassa, then go back to pow pow to kite Darius. Whether you get your reset or not (Kassa has zhonya or a sudden shield or anything), you will need to have your next auto to be from your minigun. And if you feel, like me, than the toggle is more intuitive than it is, you might believe that you're back to pow pow, but you aren't, and you have lost the bonus AS from the first rocket so your attack animation is too slow, the Darius gets you with his grab and R.I.P. I agree it is a very special situation, but it can happen multiple times in one game and it might occur during the decisive fight.

That is why i'm proposing something to make Switcheroo feel more responsive : Make the Toggle CD scale down with attack speed. Let me clarify : -I believe the technology for this is on point, as Yasuo's Q is a clear example of what i propose. Also, these little 'scales down with AS' changes seem to be quite popular right now (Xayah, Lucian (or is it with level?)). -It would make easier to use Switcheroo to get something like a reset (the situation i just described), or something else (poke someone in lane with Fishbones then grab that juicy gold with pow pow on the 2hp-left minion next to you without damaging nearby minions, etc.) -Also, i do think this would make the ability feel more intuitive. Smoother. As a Jinx lover myself, who likes to think that she is my spirit animal, I have to say I feel like the CD should scale down with AS to truly fulfill her fantasy of Gun-crazy-chick-who-yells-and-murder in teamfights or when excited.

Little disclaimer, but I don't know if it's even relevant : I understand that some could fear that Q-spamming could cause mistakes regarding the stance you are in/you think you are in (i'm not asking for a zero second CD though, i heared it could be OP, neither an auto reset when switching, just a reasonably decrease with AS). However, I remember that there was a (short) time, a year ago or so, when Jinx could use Switcheroo while hard CCed. Not only do I find it a good idea, but also it could prevent someone from spamming Q after the hard CC and thus making a stance mistake. It was eventually removed, though. Having it back could be a solution in case my proposition is accepted (and even if not! ;)).

In short : Make Switcheroo's cooldown scale down with attack speed. What do you think? Have a good day everyone :)

EDIT : [slayer-jinx-wink]

EDIT 2: I just answered this to a comment, to be clearer about the issue i'm targeting as opposed to a potential 'intended weakness' which is not the point here : The main issue here is not being able to choose which will be you 2nd auto just after you switched a stance when ou have high attack speed. When you're locked in one stance but you don't get to auto yet, it doesn't matter because Q will get off CD before your next auto (that is in early game) so it smooth and all. However, as the game progresses (and your passive procs), you litteraly lose that smoothness : whenever you switch stances you are locked in one stance for the two or three next autos, and this can hurt a lot your -positionment : as you were used to get the attack animation you wanted for the 20 minutes of the game, and Fishbones' is way longer than Pow Pow's. -timing : same thing with attack animation being different -CSing or anything related to 'i used a splash damage auto because i had to not because i wanted to'.

The issue is, when you have high attack speed and the autos after the first are not necessarily of the type you want (whereas for all the rest of the game it was the case), and if you have to micromanage your autos, whether you have to wait and lose one or two autos (which is 1000+ worth of damage lategame (before armor mitigation)) or you just put yourself in danger without expecting it because you act as if you did switch stances. In my case (as a psycopath-lover myself) i'm not that rarely surprised to see that i didn't switch stances, because when I play a very excited Jinx i feel like it would be 'normal' for her to quickly switch weapons when she attacks at a high rate, which is not the case, that is why is feel a little QoL would be really nice!

Sorry for the loooong post :D Have a good day!

41 Comments

RiotAD Yuumi6/28/2017, 8:26:56 PM21 votes

Hi Roosebury, Saw your thread and thought I'd stop in and explain the reasoning behind the fixed CD on her Q.

When I was designing Jinx 's kit one of the first major decisions I made on her Q was whether she was going to be a stance dancer or a stance chooser. Stance dancers are characters like Udyr and Sona, who are heavily encouraged through things like their passive to constantly be swapping stances regardless of in game circumstances. Stance choosers are characters like Elise and Jayce who try to pick the right stance based on what's happening around them and stay in it until the situation changes.

While thematically, stance dancing feels like it would be a great fit for Jinx (she is a manic gun nut after all), I ended up making her a stance chooser because it gave more weight to Pow-Pow and Fishbones as individual weapons. I wanted each of her guns(friends?) to feel like it's own special entity with a clear purpose, instead of one being tied to the other as a combo piece where you were constantly forced to switch to gain optimal DPS.

This is the reason for the fixed CD. Because of range, splash, and bonus damage Fishbones rockets are strictly better than Pow-Pow bullets for a single attack in all situations. The only thing holding them back is the mana cost and AS decrease after using more than one. If the Q had a CD lower than Jinx's attack speed the optimal play would be to constantly swap between Fishbones and Pow-Pow every attack to ensure you got the attack speed benefits of the first AND the range, splash, and damage benefits of the second.

There are ways to make a fast swap less optimal, like making it so the first rocket after the swap LOSES Pow-Pow's AS bonus, but in testing that made rockets feel super clunky. I started getting really positive feedback about the "smoothness" of the swap after I ensured that the first rocket maintained Pow-pow's attack frame. I'd be scared to go back on that, especially after seeing players' negative reaction to the super slow level 1 rockets we added to her during the marksman update (and later removed).

All that said, if we did want to make Jinx a stance dancer in the future, a suggestion like yours (Q CD scales with AS) is a pretty good one. Thanks for thinking about her :D Hope this context helps.

Schiffer van Art6/28/2017, 1:41:19 AM6 votes

Nice idea man, upvoted! :)

Akkiiii6/28/2017, 11:47:20 AM5 votes

It's a good idea, actually I love it :)

ModAcademy Kayn6/28/2017, 4:31:30 AM5 votes

That seems like it's an intended weakness.

Skorch6/28/2017, 5:28:33 AM5 votes

Yeah even before late game i sometimes am annoyed with this in laning when im around 1.3 attack speed.

Forger of Days6/28/2017, 3:33:03 AM4 votes

Glad I'm not the only one with this problem, I experience it a lot in the early game, I love to poke my lane opponent with Fishbones but at 20 mana, that can be costly early game (before first back). Not to mention the splash damage really messes up my cs timing if I'm not expecting it. It always frustrates me, cause I am like .1 second early. Upvoted, hope Riot agrees.

Poro adorable6/28/2017, 1:37:35 AM3 votes

Really good point imo! I hope someone at Riot sees it. Logged in just to upvote.

StarGuardianWeeb6/28/2017, 5:35:21 PM3 votes

I agree. Xayah got a lockout added to her Q before using an AA and then they found that late game "it was hindering her performance if you built AS heavily"

well this is essentially the same issue and should be addressed. Oh and speaking of similarities between Xayah and Jinx i'd like her W to scale in crit like Xayahs E since you'd think a Tazer would be more "critically painful" than a bunch of feathers. (thats a personal thing tho)

TheChaoticSwede6/28/2017, 5:08:07 AM2 votes

I've been playing Jinx since her release and have over 100's of games on her and I can tell you for a fact that Jinx's switcheroo cast time is used as a balancing mechanic ever since her rockets got reworked to work with Runaan's.

Before that you could actually switch from Pow-Pow to Fishbones and the cast time wouldn't really matter if you had an AS over 1.8 because the AA would override the animation and just attack normally during the switch. But when they reworked her rockets they stealth nerfed the bug and pretty much streamlined every Jinx build from then on to rush IE and Runaans before anything else otherwise you're suffering heavily on damage output. Bork a little while ago was pretty okay to build before IE or Runaans but then they nerfed it which was called for tbh.

Honestly I'd rather them just take away the Rocket+Runaan's interaction and give her animation cancelling bug back. Just revert her back to the original version because back then it was actually okay to build lifesteal instead of crit early since you had faster scaling AS in earlier levels.

I'm just sick and tired of being a glorified turret that gets hit once by any form of CC and I'm dead because Jinx is one of the slowest adcs in the game with no escapes and she's basically free gold to any semi-coordinated team strike pre 14 because the only way she can kite as fast as any other adc in the game right now is if she stays on her Pow-Pow and that has one of the lowest ranges in the game combined with her no escapes and low mobility.

Jinx really has a lot of negatives about her that could be looked into but no one cares or wants to because every now and again you get a Jinx who has a competent team that can peel for her so she can blow your team up and even then that's a maybe.

HeeroTX6/28/2017, 7:24:07 PM1 votes

A) If you are justifying your idea by saying "For example, Yasuo..." then just stop. No. Bad idea to use one of the most hated and banned champions IN THE ENTIRE GAME as your basis of comparison.

B) No. I read your comments, I get your point. But no. No, I don't think it is fair or right that Jinx be able to toggle between speed and range with perfect timing simply because it "feels" better. I'm a Tristana main and it'd "feel" a lot better if I could jump OVER your traps (or Caitlyn's) but I CAN'T because "LOL, Riot". It'd also feel great if my Q let me toggle between max passive and current Q with no cooldown, but it doesn't

Rockets are for harass and minigun is for tower burn and cs. Too damn bad if you think they're not "super duper" for handling a 2v1 situation. New champs get prettier toys than you? Yeah, welcome to the club.

Call Me Nana6/28/2017, 11:19:02 PM1 votes

imo she doesnt really need the 'smoothness'

she already gets 750+ range on an auto, that does plash damage and allows to crit. She should be punished in some way for that.