Itemization in League: Lack of Diversity, Simplicity, and Ubiquity

Badgerino·8/20/2018, 4:20:57 AM·43 votes·14,393 views

I've looked at the forums from time to time and two common thing I see is: "X Item is too Strong" which is often times countered with "But nerfing it kills X style of gameplay" or "I wish X style of champion had more tools" which often devolves into arguing which style has the least tools. The problem is that no one is particularly addresses the root issue; The Lack of Build Diversity, The Simplicity of League's Items, and the Ubiquity of Leagues items.

Now this is going to be a long post and I should perhaps preface this post with that I have been playing league since in alpha and the notion of cookie cutter builds have existed for years, the concept behind which is that for each champion there is a "Perfect Build" of which there is a limited standard of deviation. These styles of build path encourage that your build the same items in the same order every game. A perfect example of this are crit ADCs who tend to build: item 3095 -> item 3094 -> item 3031 -> item 3087 -> item 3026 / item 3035 / item 1053 every game. Same is true for assassin type characters who build: item 3147 -> item 3142 -> item 3071 -> item 3026 every game. And wouldn't you know the same is true for bruisers who build: item 3078 / item 3071 -> item 3053 -> item 3748 / item 3742 -> item 3065 -> item 3026 every game. I could go on. But the idea is that in broad strokes, regardless of the game there is The Build and nothing much else. Leaving players with usually only 1 item slot for flexibility, which is generally only found later into the game. As such we should question why this is the case, seeing as there are a few reasons. As far as I see it the reasons are as follows: Ease, Timings, Efficiency, and most importantly Stat Checks; of these however I really want to focus on the last one, and perhaps a bit about efficiency as well.

Most items in league cause stat checks pure and simple, the lack of meaningful active abilities cause items to be nothing but passive bonuses. Do I have enough Lethality to nullify my opponents armor? Do I have enough AD/AS/Crit to push well? Am I tanky enough to tank? These are how the cookie cutter builds function, they shoehorn you because its what's "Optimal". You will never not build the "Optimal" path because you will find it hard to function within your role without it. Buying the most effective item in league for your given champion is often times not a meaningful choice, and in most cases once you've bought said item you forget it and move on. The overall impact of the item rarely ties into how you use it, after buying a item 3065 or item 3075 for instance requires no skill to use, your champion suddenly just does more of the thing it was already doing; same can be said for every non-active item in league, which is the majority of items, and even some of the active ones. Due to the fact that the decision of which item to purchase in league is so simple and the nature of the items we purchase are so simple there is a distinct feeling for lack of counterplay when facing particular builds.

I find that **True Supports **are in a unique position on this matter however because they have the ability to purchase active items that uniquely influence themselves and their team's gameplay; true support can push a style of gameplay not just with their abilities but also their items. Think of it like this, picture Nami Nami To dumb it down, Nami heals, gives movespeed, and CC. It is not out of the question for Nami to build either item 3190 or item 2065, as they give her Redundancy in Her Gameplay, now redundancy is not bad, in fact its great, but how many items exist within league that one can say make up for a champion's deficiencies in a way that seriously alters the way a champion functions?

To look at that last question I am going to depart from league for a bit and talk a little about Dota 2, I know I know, but still. I'm not here to say one game is better than the other I just want to borrow some examples from it, I love both games in different capacities. I want to talk about a couple Heroes in Dota 2 for my examples, Lina, and Slark. Both of these heroes has any number of build paths they can follow; there is a slew of Damage, Defensive and Utility items that each of these Heroes can purchase in order to emphasize the style of play the player wishes to achieve, furthermore this allows players to adapt their builds on a game to game basis much more so than with league's current item pool.

Lets talk about **Lina **First. Lina is a nuke mage who is played either mid as a carry or as a support, you can think of her sort of like a Brand. She has the option to build items that increase her attack damage or her spell damage, the only difference is that in dota there are very few items that provide the latter of the 2. Because of the lack of "AP" items in Dota most players opt to go for a third category of items: Utility. One of Lina's Abilities "Light Strike Array"is a powerful AOE Nuke and also a 2.5 second Stun, however the biggest problem can be landing it as it has a 0.5 second delay. Due to the delay a lot of players purchase an Item called Eul's Scepter which does a lot of great things for us as Lina, it gives attack damage, mana regen and movespeed, great for a mage, but most notably is it's active ability _"Sweeps a target unit up into a cyclone, making them invulnerable for 2.5 seconds. Cyclone can only be cast on enemy units or yourself." _. The active of Eul's Scepter does two things, it gives you a defensive tool as it can be cast on yourself, or it can be cast on enemies for the perfect stun set up. The great thing is though, is this is never the only option, not all linas buy this item, but if you want to play a pick off style its great.

Next up is Slark. Slark is akin to Camille, a high mobility bruiser carry that can lock you down and force you to fight. However a Slark player must make many build decisions from the start of the game: am I going to build Shadow Blade, Blink Dagger or Neither? The AD and AS from Shadow Blade is a good tool to fight with early and its active: _"Makes you invisible for 14 seconds, or until you attack or cast a spell. While Shadow Walk is active, you move 20% faster and can move through units." _ allows me to easily pick off squishy heroes, but is easily countered by pink wards. Do I want blink dagger: _"Teleport to a target point up to 1200 units away. CD 15 sec" _ (Flash x 3 on a 15 sec CD) to be able to jump on enemies from out of nowhere because my gap closer doesn't have the longest range, this item also lets me move across the map faster increasing my farming rate. Both options are great early game main items for creating plays around the map, but again neither are the "correct" option and one can always just sit back, buy some tanky stat items farm up and rely on the champion's raw fighting capabilities.

To end this Dota tangent I just want to bring up 2 more items. It is not uncommon for players in Dota to have a fill inventory of activatable items by the time they are 6 slotted, in fact its fairly uncommon for players to have less than 3 activatable items, 2 items in particular, on top of the ones I mentioned prior, I find to be very interesting in how they change the way a hero plays: Black King Bar (BKB) and Orchid Malevolence. BKB gives a player complete magic immunity (infinite morgana shield) for 10 seconds going down 1 second each time you use it down to 5 seconds. BKB is a phenomenal defensive tool for players of any role in the game although to cost of the item means its generally used by carry type heroes, that being said supports who wish to channel important abilities in a teamfight will want to get this item as well. Once you have a BKB, the way you use it and the way you play completely changes the game. Orchid Malevolence on the other hand gives Players an instant silence for 5 seconds that also provides a spell damage amp. While Orchid is generally considered a spell caster item, Attack focused carries will occasionally pick this up for the utility it provides against certain heroes as well as the attack speed it provides (and it can later be built into a stronger crit item variant). So where each item in league is fairly ubiquitous regardless of situation, each item in dota is situational and its up to you to make the choice for what you'll need in any given situation.

Now thats probably more Dota than anyone wanted to hear but the point I was trying to get across is that, here exists one game where items are functionally similar to abilities or summoner spells that allows players to act and react to what their opponents pick and also what they build, we lack that currently in league and we lack it in spades. Unfortunately there is no easy solution that wouldn't require a complete shop overhaul. Do we add more options to the shop, slap a bunch of actives on already existing items, or tone down the existing power level of all items so that champions function more based on raw power and abilities?

**Option A) **Adding more options to the shop is a start but it'd have to be done tactfully (remember when Meki's Pendant and Fairy Charm were in the game? It didn't add anything). The way I see it is there are 2 types of items that could be very useful to add the first, and my favorite, being what I call Dead End Items. A Dead End Item is a usually a cheap item priced around the 1500 gold margin that provides useful early game stats and power that can be sold late game for a better item. Now League actually used to have a few Dead End Items in the game back in the day things like Cloak and Dagger, Staff of Flowing Water or if we look even further back Wizard's Regalia , whereas nowadays the only Dead End Item that exists is Mejai's Soulstealer which is a snowball item. There's positives and negatives to adding Dead End Items, the first being: will the meta allow for it? When was the last time you sold a full item? Can the meta be slow enough for these cheap early game value items to be just that. On the upside however you open up so much more build options; do I buy a BF sword for my storm razor that I'm going to build or do I stop off and get this thing that costs 200g more to further help my early game, in order to better reach my storm razor. The second category of items League could add are active items, less impactful items stat wise but with powerful actives that require nuance with the player, I find item 3222 to be a good example of this design. Of the active items that exist currently, the very impactful ones are spammed item 3157 item 3128 item 3003 item 3153 (to list a few) the rest are delegated to supports, and then there's item 3056....

**Option B) **Add active effects to League's existing item pool, now this doesn't completely solve the issue of standard build paths but it could make more niche items more appealing and add depth to the game (I know that a couple of times I've picked up Zhonyas on an ADC purely due to the lack of armor items for carries and its active). I could totally see item 3022 have an active that tosses a Frozen Mallet at an opponent Rooting or Slowing them for a brief period, allowing you to catch up and actually use the item's passive. Have an active on item 3068 that explodes around the user igniting units for amplified damage. Toned down item 3147 but give it an active that lets you go camouflaged for 2 seconds, or turn the ward spotting active into sweeper lens. Maybe item 3072 has an active where when you activate it it consumes your overheal shield and grants you bonus damage based on a percent of it. item 3194 can go up in counters as to how many spells have hit you in the last 4 seconds and when you activate it you gain 1% bonus movespeed for each spell counted. That being said those are all just ideas.

Option C) Tone down items and rely on champion abilities and such but no one want that.

TLDR; I'd like to see a larger variety of build options for champions in league. I think it'd be great if items provided less so passive effects and more substantial active gameplay. I think some cheap early game items could make for interesting purchasing paths. I believe dota 2 has good examples of the last 2 statements. Much like how we've had the mage rework, the marksman rework etc, I believe it's time for a shop rework. I would love to discuss this further with anyone who managed to read through this whole post. [poppy-wink]

  • Badger

Edit Due to a lot of the comments being about Dota 2 I'd like to clarify that I am by no means stating that League's Item pool should just be Dota's item pool. I too do not wish to have 3-6 active items every game, but I think that having more than just one on anything but support would be a nice change of pace. All I wanted to do with bringing up Dota was show how and why something is working in one game, and how in this game, league, things aren't working.

Please don't make this post just be about active items, I'm here to discuss solutions and what could be implemented. Active items shouldn't exist for the sake of more active items, but active items could exist for champions looking to do a specific thing, again I find item 3222 and item 3814 accomplish this.

I will not respond to comments remarking that increasing the amount of active items will overwhelm players. Active items are already an integral part of the game and increasing the number of active items available does not inherently mean each champion suddenly has a full inventory of them. Passive items are a part of the game and I'm not trying to do away with them, once again: active items that fulfill certain niches could be an interesting way to diversify build paths by trading some form of stat power for an effect that would be synergistic to certain champions. There are also alternative solutions I and others have suggested that have nothing to do with active items at all, so if your comment is going to be one as mentioned previously perhaps look at the other routes.

60 Comments

La Bello8/20/2018, 4:48:43 AM12 votes

Active items wont happen or rather are far less likely to happen. They overwhelm players and data showed most people have a disdain for them or think the focus should be mostly on champion mechanics "playing Zed/Yasuo/Akali is already mind boggling enough why make me juggle actives while im at it?". Riot has talked about this multiple times before even giving us crazy stats to go along with it. Very few DFG users even remembered to use DFG before its removal and as a personal anecdote im personally REALLY bad with remembering to use Redemption before I die.

Part of the charm of league is being simple and easy to get into. Making a large pool of active effects is the opposite of that idea.

I think rather that tossing some actives in you should make more passives that kinda have a short opportunity window like item 3508 item 3050 or item 3094. These items make windows of play and can change your playstyle but they dont require extra clicky clickys to work which eases the brain.

Glory978/20/2018, 9:56:12 AM7 votes

The balance team is already incapable of balancing the game. Now imagine that champions have multiple build pathes that all have to be considered when buffing or nerfing a champion...

Tahminatrix 8/20/2018, 4:41:26 AM7 votes

Ya, right now item builds in this game are so set in stone that its is like thanos putting stones in his infinity gauntlet...

Teridax688/20/2018, 5:46:03 AM5 votes

This is a brilliant and well-written post, thank you for taking the time to write it. I also agree fully with the analysis: despite the huge influence items have over gameplay in League, they fail to provide the element of customization they were designed for. Every champion tends to have one optimal build path, and many items by design are oriented towards synergy and efficiency, as opposed to versatility or diversity. Much of this is also partly intentional, as Riot over time has forced champions within certain subclasses to buy only certain stats, or even revolve completely around a particular item (e.g. AD assassins and Duskblade). Modern champions are also designed with a hyper-focus on building a specific set of stats, also in a deliberate manner that often runs counter to a player desire for greater build diversity (e.g. Kindred being forced to buy crit). Effectively, the problem is not simply one of implementation, but also of intention: Riot has not successfully enacted diversity in itemization, but it also doesn't feel like they want to to begin with.

Personally, and this may be off-putting to many, I feel like League needs a different way of offering true customization, something that does not rely on runes, summoner spells or items. Items work in Dota 2, but Dota 2 is also a game balanced around fundamentally different rules, where items are allowed to have more power, and where most heroes can make at least decent use of most stats. League, by contrast, has a much more limited design, where many effects are flat-out not allowed on itemization, and where most stats are virtually worthless on most champions. Redesigning itemization to allow for greater diversity, imo, would require rebalancing champions and reworking the way they make use of stats, in addition to changing items themselves, which would be a massive task.

With this in mind, I think the most sustainable model in the long-term for a game like League could be to implement bespoke alternate playstyles for each individual champion. I'm not proposing a HotS-style talent system, as I think it has its own problems that tend to limit diversity, but rather an even more tailored, "fixed menu" style of customization. To pick an example, suppose someone takes Lulu: option A could focus on making her a support, and place emphasis on playing with her utility, whereas option B could focus around making her a more independent champion who uses her utility to fuel her offensive capabilities. Each option would implement those playstyles not with stats, but with targeted changes to the champion's abilities, as well as the addition of whichever extra passives, actives, etc. would benefit such a playstyle. It would sacrifice the fine-grained customization that stats could potentially provide (even though they don't really do that now), but in exchange it could not only properly enact diversity (each playstyle could be made truly distinct from everything else in the game), but also be much easier to balance in the long run (changing one playstyle wouldn't affect the rest of the champion, and would rely on far fewer factors, much less a complex system of multiple overlapping layers of customization).

At this point, the game is so big that I doubt an idea like this may ever get implemented, but it could nonetheless still be possible if League started progressively abandoning stats on its items, and rolled both runes and summoner spells into itemization (which by itself would already allow for some more options).

TMek78/20/2018, 12:49:06 PM1 votes

The 'Dead End' items seem to exist to either hard push objectives (seems a little divisive to balance around) or to help allies snowball (which isn't too bad assuming its not an automatic win item), since those items will stall your end game progression since while you'll gain more gold through taking advantage of extra power from the Dead End items, you lose out regardless because you'll be selling the investment. The objectives and allied snowball effect (assuming they aren't going for dead end items too) would probably not be taken on champions that rely on snowballing/late game power.

Though I would welcome additional items for varieties sake, preferably as items used as counter items or counter-counter items.

What I would like to see is alternative item variants, to allow you to lean your build a particular way without compromising on necessary active/passive effects. The initial idea behind the ADC item changes seemed intriguing; IE, BotRK and ER being the main build pieces - IE providing its power multiplier but only benefit AAs and crit scaling, BotRK providing AS and LS which are both super useful plus giving it a antitank effect while restrict power from abilities, and ER having mana sustain and good damage for ability users but again not providing more crucial stats like LS and AS. In this regard I kinda wish ADCs had more AS options that didn't involve crit for the builds that don't put emphasis on it (and put power somewhere that they'd use instead)

TheCodeisCupCake8/20/2018, 12:55:20 PM1 votes

As someone who has played Dota for around 4 years (quit to move to league) I can say comparing league items to Dota's items is very reckless. The two Moba's have VASTELY different play styles. Moreover, Dota's meta shifts very rarely and changes to their heroes are usually VERY SMALL number changes, so having many items with different effects is easier to manage than say league where a new champion becomes meta every other week.

However I do agree with the fact that league does need more itemization options. Especially as a tank/juggernaut player I usually have the same build path save 1 item that will be changed. For example the only times I find myself specifically changing my build path is when I am vs alot of crit in which case I will itemize item 3143 as a second/third item, boots also seem to be the only thing I constantly change either building item 3111 or item 3047 rarely going anything else (greaves if i am playing a non tank and can afford lack of defensive options).

Yordle Xayah8/20/2018, 2:54:57 PM1 votes

Unless you're Varus and don't care about the meta and can literally build whatever you want. I'm sure there's someone out there making Tank Varus work.

Badgerino8/20/2018, 3:43:51 PM1 votes

was this thread based off my comment?

Not inherently, I believe it's a common topic. But yes we mention very similar things at the start.

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As a player of both games, I heavily prefer League's balance, and I think if you play a bit of DotA2 you'll probably prefer the system League has in place for balance.

As I stated before, I love both games in different capacities. This post had nothing to do with balance so I don't know why you're bringing it up. I brought up Dota 2's Itemization as an example of a game with varied build paths and why it's engaging for players to make these decisions.

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I can say comparing league items to Dota's items is very reckless.

I tried to be conservative with it, though perhaps I should have mentioned Drums or Aquila instead of BKB. Again, by no means to I want 1 for 1 Dota 2's Items in League, just more options that we have currently.

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The 'Dead End' items seem to exist to either hard push objectives or to help allies snowball

I feel like something I run into a lot as an ADC player is that I will spend 800 gold on a item 3123 sometime before I finish my 1st or 2nd item if I'm verusing something like a Soraka and very rarely does it build into a final item. The power Executioners Calling give me early verses that style of champions is an investment I enjoy making the decision of, and I feel it emphasizes what you state next which is.

Though I would welcome additional items for varieties sake, preferably as items used as counter items or counter-counter items.

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I noticed that there are a lack of uncommon stats together in items.

This is another very valid point, remember when Atma's Impaler used to exist, we never saw a combination of Crit and Armor ever again. Items like these, with different distribution of stats, could be beneficial albeit a bit niche. Where is my AP/Crit item?!

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Whilst I don't think having 6 active items in your inventory really runs with the design philosphy of league

Again I too do not wish to have a full inventory of active items, but I feel like tactfully adding active effects to items to make more niche items more viable for classes who might not inherently be interested in picking them up would be beneficial.

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It used to take 40 mins at best to reach full build and then it was a case of FED.

Ah the good ol' days.

With this we can have more mid-range dead end items. At the moment everything builds into and out of everything, I don't like it.

Same, it makes for a lack of decisions. I have 350 gold may as well pick up a item 1036 it build into something I need later, dunno what yet. I'd like to see more skill in picking the right build.

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I agree with you that League could need more items but it would also make the game harder for beginners and would cause much more work to balance the game. However those should not be excusements to not giving us more variance in our item builds. More items would also mean that we can be more creative with offbuilds, etc. What I personally don´t want and I think which is perhaps unhealthy if it would become a requirement to have an inventory full of activatables. There are already so many things to keep track of and it would make the game much more stressful than it already is.

Again, I too do not want a full active item inventory but in most games I barely get more than 1 active item and it feels disingenuous because I'm not really managing my build, it just exists to make me stronger in a passive way. I also agree with your support for offbuilds, or for players to at least make more than 1 variation decision in the entirety of a match.

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The balance team is already incapable of balancing the game. Now imagine that champions have multiple build pathes that all have to be considered when buffing or nerfing a champion...

Again this post had nothing to do with balance, so please don't start a LUL Rito can't balance shitwar in the comments.

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Riot originally wanted LoL to be a simpler dota and therefore they decided to corkscrew a unique playstyle into each champion's kit. Items in LoL are merely ball of stats with no other purpose to influence the game

Done right you have have both simplicity and depth in a game.

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I dont have a problem with 2 or sometimes even 3 active I personally think we can have items with different stats, and passives that are interesting and dramatically improve the dumbed down stale itemization in the game.

First off thank you for stating your opinion in a constructive manner, and second that first bit of what I've quoted is more in line with what I'd like to see but is far from necessary. The idea was for weaker less picked items to perhaps have beneficial active effects that help push these niche items toward champions who may benefit from synergies, while at the same time not buy a 100% optimal item.

Second another post mentioned stat groupings of items, how you don't see certain stats often placed together such as health and attack speed. I think having a look at this sort of design could be a way to spice up the game.

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Now i want to play Dota >.> btw what is spell amp? I saw that as an option in talent tree when I watched TI8, aswell as multishot? And is offlane Bounty Hunter still a thing?

The do it! Spell amplification is basically dota's way of saying AP, you can find it on things like Kaya, or Veil of Discord; the spell amp on Orchid Malevolence works somewhat differently as it provides a burst of damage at the end of the silence based on how much damage you dealt during it but ya. And bounty is usually played a support these days.

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THANK YOU TO EVERYONE WHO REPLIED

the weeaboo8/20/2018, 4:26:39 PM1 votes

Honestly I think they should make the item system more like Dota and move champs damage and stats into base damages and level gains, and focus items more on actives and unique effects to diversify play styles. Right now you basically have a flowchart for what items to buy. Are you a mage? Are you vs. Zed? Are there enemy tanks buying MR? item 3285 item 3157 item 3020 item 3135 three of these items are entirely passive. first four items no question, every single game.

in Dota, just boot choices alone are pretty insane. You get the choice of:

  • item 3117 +item 3083
  • item 3142
  • Switching between when you need to tank some damage, casting a spell, and attacking, in the middle of a teamfight or constantly during lane.
  • summoner 13
  • summoner 12

A Dota level overhaul would be massive but it’s necessary to make the game less stale and polar

Jakra8/20/2018, 5:17:10 PM1 votes

I feel like we should have more items that are more objective based. You know how support items only give wards when you get so much money from its passive? Stuff like that.

Jerry SeinfeId8/20/2018, 5:27:16 PM1 votes

If every champ ends up with 6 active items i'm quitting this game. I came here to play champs, not items.

I like passive items, i dislike most active items. The only one's i've never had issues with are the tiamat items. BoTRK i've learned to use but still often forget. Active items i can work into my combo i don't mind, but shit like zhonya's i just don't like.

I feel like items should enhance your kit, nothing more. Are they statballs with passives? sure but why is that bad? Every game i've ever played had items just be statballs.

What i DO like are passives. I like Guinsoo's, rylai, liandry, etc... But the ones i especially like are items like duskblade. I know yall don't wanna hear that but listen: Nightstalker requires you to not be seen for 1 second to proc it. It has a condition that has to be met before it's PASSIVE can be used. So it gets abused by the likes of Kha, who's playstyle doesn't really change. But now build it on twitch instead of going the basic aoe nuke build. Twitch item 3147 item 3087 + Dark harvest is one of my favourite builds and i've added item 3095 to it now. Instead of sneaking behind a team and bursting them with my ult, my playstyle changes to a reset assassin playstyle. Sheen items do it alright imo, Deadmans plate too, so does RFC.

I still want active items in the game, don't get me wrong. But only if it fits into the combo. It might be interesting to see a sheen item turn into an active like the tiamat items, giving you more controlled burst but less "dps"/uptime.

I'm all for more niche items. Give an item a weird mix of AS and HP, if noone builds it it's not gonna get in anyone's way. if someone does end up using it, great.

I play league to play champions, not lanes, not roles, not itembags. Items should enhance your champ and possibly change their playstyle with passives.

shaco is a good example as he's clearly capable of building both ap and ad. Or atleast he was.

Badgerino8/20/2018, 5:50:06 PM1 votes

If every champ ends up with 6 active items i'm quitting this game. I came here to play champs, not items.

So I see a lot of people talking about how they don't want 6 active items, which again was not the point of this post; this post is not called "We Need more Active Items in League". People are focusing on the wrong aspects of the post, I feel like we can all agree that we don't want league to become dota, because we all like league. I brought up active items as a solution to items/builds/champions with little to no counterplay, and for less bought items to become more appealing to certain niches. Please remember this should be a conversation about a solution.

I'd like to hear more about this

What i DO like are passives. I like Guinsoo's, rylai, liandry, etc...

What makes you like these items and how can the same sort of design be implemented to other items

Anin7778/20/2018, 7:03:46 PM1 votes

In terms of damage items, it has to be limited because [recent] champs are designed with certain playstyles in mind. Jhin can go AS+Crit, Armor Shred, Full AD and still work. Lucian can do the same and work. But a champ like Vayne is limited. Why? Her kit is dependent on AS and that's perfectly fine.

Diversity in items is what led to the CDR mess we have now. People wanted more CDR available on other items and Riot went overboard and gave almost every core item CDR (Did Maw really need CDR?).

Edit: Adding more items requires more balance work and right now, balance is in shambles. Let Riot bring this game back to S5 standards and then they can think about item diversity.

MarkedOfKane8/20/2018, 10:15:43 PM1 votes

Can we maybe get some armor items that aren't made for countering attack speed/crit characters? Besides Dead Man's Plate?

XOXOXOXOXOXO8/20/2018, 11:55:06 PM1 votes

I love the thought and the idea of this, but having so many actives will overwhelm players. It also seems like building the same thing every game is how it goes. I feel like introducing champions that do the same thing but in a different style is all they are doing. Look at Jinx and Tristana. They do the same thing to an extent. They auto fast and provide AD damage over time. Look at Xerath and Lux. They spam abilities from long range and do bursty AP Damage. The builds will be similar because it's the same thing with different abilities. Tristana get's a bomb, while Jinx get's a rocket that slows. Xerath get's a stun that hits one person, Lux gets a Root that hits 2 people. It's similar things reskins. That is the root of your problem. It's hard to make champs crazy unique and balance the game at the same time. That would result in less champions too. The items are fine, but the stormrazor thing where if you don't rush it you automatically lose. That's absurd.

Faceroll Tactics8/21/2018, 1:00:35 AM1 votes

Dota 2 does items infinitely better.

Why?

Dota 2 items actually have meaningful actives that interact with more mechanics than “is it off cool down?”

HaIlMonitor8/21/2018, 1:46:29 AM1 votes

What does making more available options really do? Do you think it will make the game more balanced?

I personally think it will just make it more of a shit show because I know everyone and their dog hates items like Duskblade, but why wouldn't riot want an item like that? If a class is op they just nerf the items they use which makes it easier. Whenever they have done something like this it doesnt change anything. Like honestly look at the mage rework you brought up, I would bet that its like 80% build ludens, 19% Build Staff, and 1% build other item (tbh cant even remember the name.... But the thing is nothing changed. It just went from Morellos and Tear to Ludens or Tear....

Yokkers8/21/2018, 2:40:21 AM1 votes

I like what you are getting at being that I also enjoy dota 2 ( mainly for the itemization )... However I will point out that Dota has suffered quite a bit by adding talents, there are heros you can't break the meta with anymore... I play exclusively ability draft when I play dota and because of how the talents work, I barely want to play anymore... if you get shafted with warlock in ability draft 3/4 of your talents are exclusive to your abilities, what league has is all the keystones etc, which is way more versatile then what you are implying about the items in Dota 2. I would also like to note, there are several champs in league who you can have very different builds to augment your ability/playstyle... Take Nasus, could go AD/AP/Tank/ or this secret build I conjured up that is an AOE tank, it involves zekes/cindercoat/abyssal mask/liandries for its core, all just adding to the over power your ult has.

I'll also toss this out there, I've played Leblanc/Ahri/Lulu/Janna/Bard/Brand ( and I'm sure many more ) ive played all of them CRIT ADC builds before and got A+ or higher... in the case of bard I actually got a penta-kill and will also point out that I'm usually top tier damage... Granted these types of builds don't snow ball nearly as well in summoners rift but the point stands nevertheless...

Dingding1238/21/2018, 3:35:00 PM1 votes

You forgot to mention how runes created literally every meta build in the same way:

"you have BURST! USE IT! USSSEEEEE IIIIIIITTTTT"

Power Cosmic8/22/2018, 3:16:27 AM1 votes

The game caters to new adolescent players and not veterans.

deadlychuck8/20/2018, 8:27:01 AM1 votes

While I agree with the overall statement made by this post. I think a lot of this stems from the fact that riot changed a lot of the game away from a strategic RPG approach of designing champions to a more action oriented approach.

Where as in an RPG design, swapping out a few items could dramatically change the focus and role of your champion, which made it nearly impossible to have a "default" built, because if the enemy team wasn't also using a "default" build, then you'd be crippling yourself by using a predictable consistent build as everyone else in the game.

The issue of this kind of stat checking nature of the itemization is a result of having both RPG style champions designed to fill a particular role on the team consistently and reliably and champions designed to be action characters who have unreliable and inconsistent degrees of success at doing their job, in the same game. Riot needed to split the game up into two different games a long time ago and develop them independently. One version which kept the old RPG/RTS slower style of game and added in a second version which could adopt this new faster pace and lower consistency style.

Simply put, riot use to design around numbers, now they design around statistics, so changing items from numbers to statistics would be approriate. They changed from target skills that do 50 damage, to skills that will miss 50% of the time but deals 100 damage. Numerically they might be the same, but functionally they only work in different contexts and are impossible to balance against each other.

Do this to items in nexus blitz, and revert changes made to SR over the past like 5 years. Simple :D

dome0258/20/2018, 11:45:38 AM1 votes

I agree with you that League could need more items but it would also make the game harder for beginners and would cause much more work to balance the game. However those should not be excusements to not giving us more variance in our item builds. More items would also mean that we can be more creative with offbuilds, etc.

What I personally don´t want and I think which is perhaps unhealthy if it would become a requirement to have an inventory full of activatables. There are already so many things to keep track of and it would make the game much more stressful than it already is.

LynXerf8/20/2018, 12:00:04 PM1 votes

Whilst I don't think having 6 active items in your inventory really runs with the design philosphy of league, I would love to see the game slowed gown along with gold income, shutdown gold, turret gold bonus etc. At the moment it's not even unusual to see someone at full build at 25 mins, it's insane. It used to take 40 mins at best to reach full build and then it was a case of FED.

With this we can have more mid-range dead end items. At the moment everything builds into and out of everything, I don't like it. Rageblade used to be a mid-tier niche item that I used to rush for a goofy power spike. There should be more items in the range of 2000-2500 gold and they should be more raw stat-efficient than the legendary items. The legendary items should have more powerful actives and utility. Trinity force, for example, should be the ultimate legendary item. The sheen proc should be reverted back to 150% AD, and more utility moved into it such as AD, AP, crit everything really. I loved the old trinity - anyone could build it but it wasn't perfect for anyone. It could be remade to include more useful utility like move speed and health.

For me, perfect itemization would be a case where only 1 in 10 games you get to that end-game full build fantasy. It would be far more novel then!