RIOT, Can we talk about Karma's Empowered W in the Jungle?

aquaticwonder·4/17/2015, 12:24:48 AM·158 votes·6,227 views

Karma is an extremely versatile champion. She can be played in every lane effectively -- one of my favorite aspects about her kit. I believe she is very balanced atm, as she has clear strengths and weaknesses.

Magus is not necessarily underpowered in terms of jungle items, but it is extremely underused. I believe Karma could be played effectively in the jungle if her Empowered W could tether to large or epic monsters. This would not affect lane Karma in any way, similar to the Nidalee jungle changes a few patches ago. Karma could serve a unique niche in the jungle - Support Jungling, almost similar to Nautilus or even Gragas. Even in the jungle, she would still have clear weaknesses and strengths. She wouldn't have great objective control, she lacks strong cc, and often struggles against teams who can out sustain her poke. However, Karma is an extremely effective 1v1 champion and could potentially have some deadly ganks who the user can set up her Empowered Q and W correctly.

83 Comments

SaltyToplaneGoat4/17/2015, 12:58:12 AM20 votes

More mages in the jungle sounds like a good idea ^^

Also her ganks aren't half bad. Run in with shield-speed, W enemy and RQ into the face. Stun and damage, ennough so your lane pal can finish him off xD

Dunal4/17/2015, 8:08:30 PM5 votes

I think Karma needs some QoL changes in general.

W's tether range being slightly longer so it isn't so close to the cast range.

Passive possibly scaling a bit lategame (2 > 2.5 > 3 secs).

Mantra E applying the bonus shield on the main target.

Perhaps making her R not scale with CDR but rebalancing the base cooldown (Like 40/30/25/20), making it so building CDR isn't extremely mandatory -- allowing for better build options.

Things like that.

She's not weak but but could use some tweaks to make her feel better.

Kitten of Evil4/17/2015, 1:11:28 AM5 votes

This change would be amazing, and it's very minor outside of jungle, but it makes her jungling actually decently viable. I love it!

Sugar Momma4/17/2015, 1:52:24 AM5 votes

As someone with over 200 games of Karma this season (many of which were in the jungle), I find this idea brilliant!

Jingerbeardman4/17/2015, 3:32:22 AM4 votes

As someone who was one of the most frequent karma players last season I feel like I need to step in here.

If karma were able to use Focused resolve on minions/monsters she would go from her powerful healthy state into being... way to strong.

you pretty much hit the nail on the head saying she is an extremely effective 1v1 champ. But you are largely wrong about most of your other points. The truth is she has pretty excellent objective control with he empowered Q. She also has strong CC with her skill shot AoE slow, Slow zone if empowered, combined with her W root and speed boost shield she could pretty much secure kills with incredible ease as a jungler and that is a major understatement.

Truth is Karma could quite easily become a fringe power case at any moment. The fact that she is most frequently played as support keeps her shielded from that though thanks to supports typically not being able to build as much early AP. Her abilities all have a decent AP ratio and when mantra'd they are better than some of the most powerful mages in the game.

If she was able to use W on minions/monsters, even if it were only large/epic monsters, she would end up tipping the scales of OP more than you could imagine. Saying she would have poor objective control... that would be a gross inaccuracy. If she were allowed to W dragon she could take it at lvl 3 with blue buff without even the fear of dying. Why? you are forgetting about Renewal (mantra'd W). Renewal restores 20% of missing health on cast and another 20% on completion. That would be in addition to her shield which mitigates extremely well even at low ranks. Simply put... it just wouldn't even be fair.

Karma is in a perfect spot right now. Letting a champion be able to play everywhere is not healthy for the game. Thankfully, Karmas semi restricted range helps keep her from spilling over the top and I for one want to keep it that way. Any changes of this scale would put her in the cross-hairs of an enormous nerfalanche that would leave all of you who would like to see this happen crying in its wake.

(dont get me wrong, I would love if this were possible. I just know it cant and should not be done.)

for those who were familiar with the summoner play frequency of karma last season, I am ColdmanJ. At my peak I believe I reached 7th most frequent karma player in the world. The only reason I fell below the top 10 before the preseason started was that I began searching out new picks for the up incoming season in addition to Karma. I recently did a name change which is the only reason why I even bring it up.

IcyPepper4/17/2015, 12:31:35 AM4 votes

While we're at it, can we change Soraka's E in a similar way?

évy4/17/2015, 12:27:30 AM3 votes

i like this idea

Kazaashi4/17/2015, 12:31:27 AM3 votes

Hell yea! +1

TenSlashTen4/17/2015, 3:46:08 PM2 votes

Petition to bring back old karma before riot ruined her skill cap and awsome passive. Thank you. Signed, tenslashten, avid top/support karma pre rework

I Main Swain4/17/2015, 9:40:28 PM2 votes

as a mild karma player (emphasis on mild, so if you have a reason for this being false please say so POLITELY) I find her ult q to be too powerful. chunks an enormous amount of health and is relatively easy to land, all the while having a low mana cost. again, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, just don't be a douche about it. I just feel like it's too strong and crowds her other ult abilities out

HeWolf4/17/2015, 1:11:36 PM1 votes

ANY kind of buff to Magus enchanment (except a Veigarish compensation) would bring some mages to the jungle the first 3 days, but then Nidalee would be MAXIMUS BIG LORD DADDY AND MOMMY tier. If you want to buff that enchantment you would have to remove her from the jungle first or rework her again which is not very likely to happent rn.