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@RiotRepertoir @RiotMeddler PBE Janna Thoughts

Lucifer·9/17/2017, 9:04:20 PM·16 votes·1,299 views

Hey Repertoir,

Thanks for taking a look at Janna in the coming patch. As a Janna main, I'm actually glad to see she's getting some changes (and some of them are good), but I have some concerns that some of the proposed changes actually make her less engaging in lane, which is the opposite of what you are intending.

E Cooldown: 18 seconds at rank one is way too long. It might be worth budgeting a late game hit (say 11-12 seconds, instead of 10) to give Janna a bit of breathing room to use her shield early. Right now Janna simply opts out of trading because it's far too risky with her shield CD. She'll simply get outpoked by supports like bard/Lulu. I'd be curious if you think Lulu should also have her shield nerfed, because it's a bit weird she can passively shield her ADC out of lane as well, but is not being touched this patch. A cooldown of something like 16-14.5-13.5-12.5-11 might be more reasonable.

W: The cooldown buffs to this spell are nice, and it encourages Janna to use it more aggressively. Unfortunately, it's also super counter-intuitive to ever use it unless you need the slow. If Janna uses W, she loses all her passive bonus MS damage. This wouldn't be a problem, but her base AD and scaling AD were nerfed in exchange for that.

Base AD/AD Per Level Nerfs: It doesn't do much good for Janna to have longer AA range if her autos do no damage (her base AD is now one of the lowest in the game). She somewhat makes up for this late game with the new passive, but if the goal is to make Janna take risks in lane, nerfing her AD and AD per level are not going to do that.

Tailwind/Ancient Coin: This is where a lot of Janna's invisible power is hidden. On live, Janna is giving her allies ~20% bonus MS with coin combined with talwind. This is a huge boon that is not often noticed. I'd argue Talwind should be removed entirely in favor of something else, and that coin should be looked at. Ardent was not even considered that overpowered until coin was given significant buffs (which allowed supports to rush ardent by 11-13 mins).

Ardent Censer: This nerf is good (something needed to be taken out of that item, since it was very much a jack of all trades), but you're really double whammying Janna by nerfing her this hard in addition to the ardent nerfs.

Would love to hear your thoughts!

21 Comments

S92nB9/17/2017, 9:18:39 PM4 votes

I agree on everything

Mysticman899/18/2017, 12:00:17 AM3 votes

Currently hoping some/all of the pbe changes are them doing the 'extreme' version of nerfs they sometimes do for data purposes, but what they actually push to live is somewhat tamer. Might be optimistic thinking though.

Floofz9/18/2017, 2:32:22 AM3 votes

I really wish they would make her W into a skillshot and have it reduce ability cooldowns if it hits a champion as itd allow for her E to have a long cd early and be somewhat ok by having to use/land ur W to alleviate that but also adds more skill expression by removing a pt and click ability and possibly giving them more power budget to shift around.

Swarovsko9/18/2017, 1:22:10 AM2 votes

She's basically a Lulu 2.0. I would've loved to see different changes to Janna, like a total W and a mini passive rework, but the fact that they DOUBLED the cooldown on her shield (they want her to be interactive with a 18/16/14/12/10 second shield? lol it is almost laughable at how stupid these nerfs are) demonstrates that Meddler, Repertoir or whoever designed these changes doesn't know what he/she is doing. Actually, they know what they are doing but they don't know how, which is a huge problem because a champion getting ruined by a person's incompetence is not okay.

Buffy4329/17/2017, 9:23:35 PM2 votes

If a lot of Janna's power budget is in her shield giving bonus AD to her ADC, maybe that should be replaced with something else? E.g., ally shielded is given [x%] bonus move speed and [x] bonus damage?

Dunno, just a thought.

Kloqdq9/18/2017, 1:47:21 PM2 votes

The main issue with these changes is they just sort of miss the mark and are not only counter-productive to Janna as a champion but also just a poor choice that doesn't really make Janna more active in lane. She has hidden power along with only disengage tools that don't involve Janna going up.

Remember the W changes from earlier? Those changes actually aimed to make Janna be more aggressive and interact with opponents. They weren't amazing but they did hit the mark and were interesting. Not only do these changes feel lazy, but they are just overall nerfs to the champion. I honestly believe if these changes go through, she will hit Ryze win rates because they are very very bad.

Nymzo9/18/2017, 12:34:12 PM1 votes

If they want so much a movement speed passif on Janna:

35% (I'll use that number for now, seems reasonable) of Janna's movement speed is given to her allies in an area around her.

BOOM! Not only is this actually useful for her now and her allies now, it's also thematic for a wind lady.

The Yetii Rider9/18/2017, 3:39:21 PM1 votes

AD/Range - Janna shouldn't be good at trading in lane. She shouldn't be an actual threat or harasser. What the range change should do in the early game is bait bad Janna players into going for trades and getting out of position, which will get them killed.

This is important, so read carefully: the problem with Janna is that she's easy. There needs to be more ways for bad players to screw up with her so that they don't do well on her when they just pick her up. The reason this is important is because if Janna ever becomes meta, her pick rate goes up artificially by a bunch of people playing her for the first time. However, unlike with other champions, this does not drag her win rate down. New people playing her a bunch doesn't negatively affect her win rate. That's a big issue and it displays just how safe Janna actually is.

Some of these changes shouldn't be about Janna players. They should be about fucking over meta sheep who try Janna. The AD/Range change is one of them.

Rainfall9/17/2017, 11:20:13 PM1 votes

her e will also need value nerfs. (that was the whole point of the nerfs) it just looks like riot wants to drag balancing janna as much as possible and trying to not displease the janna mains.(theres a skin sale just around the corner)