@Riot: I am all for counterbuilding, but...

Sozan5·12/3/2016, 1:22:00 PM·131 votes·9,323 views

What exactly am I (Teemo) supposed to do here?

http://i.imgur.com/2hJlfSp.png?noredirect

This costs literally 0 gold and have relatively short cooldown with high duration. One of them is gamebreaking for Teemo, but 5 of them? They can have Oracle up over 83% of the time. Add to this Scrying Plants, ** Control Wards** and Duskblade (surprisingly absent from this game in particular) and Teemo doesn't have an ultimate (Shaco and Jhin don't have their Ws).

I know everyone hates Teemo and his shrooms, but I believe it's way too easy to counter them nowadays (was pretty bad since the introduction of Oracle Alteration). I really would like to see Riot's opinion on this matter.

http://68.media.tumblr.com/63889aac171b4bf1d7b476e6700e19a6/tumblr_nq206emQ5J1syf8nwo2_250.gif

230 Comments

Astôlfo12/3/2016, 1:24:25 PM79 votes

Vision tools disabling the invisible traps is retarded. If you can see the trap, don't fucking walk on it. If you walk on it anyways, you deserve to get hit with whatever the trap does to you.

Just my take on the vision versus invisible traps thing.

Maximum Morde12/3/2016, 3:07:58 PM34 votes

Well, you forced them into not having any wards. How about you leverage that?

Zelorxon12/3/2016, 2:06:06 PM17 votes

How to play teemo:

  1. don't pick teemo
  2. play something else
  3. congratulations!
Rivuo12/3/2016, 10:53:00 PM14 votes

You made 5 people buy sweepers... They have 1 sight stone literally the map is black cant believe you even got upvoted

Borbland12/3/2016, 4:05:51 PM12 votes

For that, they barely have any vision.

Gorgiolio12/3/2016, 9:41:43 PM9 votes

Play on hit teemo instead.

hhaavviikk12/3/2016, 4:37:07 PM7 votes

teemo should just be reworked.

either there is a lack of detection and his shrooms are the most frustratingly strong trap in the game or there is so much detection they simply turn into miniwards that deal no damage.

personally I have more of a problem with his Q since it's targeted so you can't dodge it

Blåbæret12/3/2016, 8:18:57 PM7 votes

{quoted}

What exactly am I (Teemo) supposed to do here?

http://i.imgur.com/2hJlfSp.png?noredirect

This costs literally 0 gold and have relatively short cooldown with high duration. One of them is gamebreaking for Teemo, but 5 of them? They can have Oracle up over 83% of the time. Add to this Scrying Plants, ** Control Wards** and Duskblade (surprisingly absent from this game in particular) and Teemo doesn't have an ultimate (Shaco and Jhin don't have their Ws).

I know everyone hates Teemo and his shrooms, but I believe it's way too easy to counter them nowadays (was pretty bad since the introduction of Oracle Alteration). I really would like to see Riot's opinion on this matter.

http://68.media.tumblr.com/63889aac171b4bf1d7b476e6700e19a6/tumblr_nq206emQ5J1syf8nwo2_250.gif

Teemo is a toxic plague-like champion. No one wants to deal with him. He needs a rework if anything. Should tell you Something when an entire team felt the need to buy Sweeper to avoid losing 50% or more of their health by stepping on a shroom and having to back.

Leo102412/3/2016, 3:04:22 PM6 votes

As a level 6 Teemo player, i've watched him slowly go down in terms of effectiveness and i can say that Riot probably won't do much for him any time soon

Tis a nice day12/4/2016, 1:11:01 AM6 votes

You become a preventative measure. Enemy has fewer wards now that everyone uses sweepers instead.

Teridax6812/4/2016, 12:31:23 AM5 votes

Trap disabling should not be a thing. There are five traps in the game, and the ones with issues should be solved by adding more counterplay directly to them, not by allowing a cheap item to hard-counter them. This is precisely the kind of situation Riot was trying to avoid when they reworked stealth and prevented Control Wards from disabling short-term invisibility.

There are currently two types of traps: invisible traps, namely Teemo's, Shaco's and Jhin's, and visible traps, namely Caitlyn's and Nidalee's. Out of the three different invisible traps, Jhin's set a good model for the rest: they don't deal initial damage, offer the player time to react and avoid said damage, and can be detonated "safely" by stepping on them and retreating if you know exactly where they are. Captive Audience already has a ton of counterplay without the need to be disabled by another item. That same model could easily be ported to Shaco's Jack In The Box, since those things usually wind up before popping out and scaring people, though he likely deserves much more than just that change, including buffs to his AD playstyle. For Teemo, you could also implement the same counterplay by, say, having mushrooms jump into the air before detonating, which would give a warning without disrupting his waveclear too hard. Honestly, both Teemo and Shaco need larger-scale reworks farther down the line, and those reworks should improve the counterplay to their traps.

As for visible traps, I think the best solution might just be to give them a set amount of health, or have minions set them off (or both, though Nidalee's traps already detonate on minions). It's silly for Caitlyn to lay down a bunch of traps directly under your tower without you being able to do anything about it, and the solution shouldn't be to buy an item specifically to turn them off. Basically, if traps need additional counterplay, that should be implemented directly onto the traps themselves, not through an exceedingly niche hard-counter effect tacked onto vision denial.

mikemcparty12/4/2016, 1:55:44 AM5 votes

Lack of vision on the other team! Nice job, teemo, you just won your team the game.

Off Meta Evan12/3/2016, 10:47:46 PM4 votes

i hate the idea of counterbuilding in the first place tbh. "Instead of beating a champion through wit and mechanical skill let me just build an item that artificially wins for me."

dunder kill12/3/2016, 6:36:50 PM3 votes

On a side note, its still not as bad as Oracles Elixer. 5 people have to be in the same spot and all use them in perfect sequence for an 83% uptime. Oracles was just a 100% up time all the time lol

Melledoneus12/3/2016, 6:34:29 PM3 votes

That sucks and all, but in this situation I would take full advantage of the fact that they don't have refillable vision. Of course, that would mean your team isn't stupid.

Only Play Darius12/5/2016, 1:54:46 AM3 votes

I don't know what exactly is the enemy team supposed to do now that 4 of them can't put down wards?

GarthBrooksXD12/3/2016, 1:52:18 PM3 votes

Yeah its really not fair at all and Riot hasn't commented on Teemo since they introduced control wards, scrying plant etc this preseason. ipav even wrote a huge thread with tons of commenters and not a word from Riot justifying or promising a fix.

Revali12/4/2016, 5:17:23 PM2 votes

that would feel like heaven to me, leaving that ~~support ~~ lux to be the only one capable of warding just to try and disable one champion, ambushes for daaaays

Auroramancer12/4/2016, 7:05:58 PM2 votes

In exchange, they have no warding or scrying trinkets.

Also, for all they know, your shrooms could be anywhere on the map, and their sweepers don't cover the whole map. It only lasts long enough to cover small portions of the map.

In this kind of game, your shrooms are useless if you are just laying them down for anti-siege because they'll be in predictable places, but if you're playing Teemo in an anti-siege playstyle, then you're doing it wrong.

Yfrappefort12/4/2016, 4:13:19 PM1 votes

I fully support you, like any post asking for Teemo to be looked at since he got trashed since season 5.

Sadly, you won't get a reply. Riot push aside any Teemo post. Proof in here : http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/gG9cwWEv-teemos-state?show=flat&page=2

Post made by the only Master Teemo with over 200 upvotes and it got ignored.