Teemo's state.

iPav··244 votes·28,456 views

Hi, this is iPav a Teemo player in current season. I have been playing teemo over 2~3 years. What I have noticed is that Teemo is constantly getting nerfed. From s4, Trap ap ratio -> 0.8 to 0.5, & Scuttle clears river side traps. s5, 10 Mins trap -> 5mins trap, & Red lens item 3341 disabling Traps (Gave trap the ability to be thrown for teamfight, but traps do not work in teamfight due to 3 items that disables trap) s6 Oracle item 3364 starts disabling the traps s7 Pinkward ->Controlitem 2055 ward starts disabling the traps. & Duskblade item 3147 Can detract the traps & Plants detect traps

***Now, this is what all the ad bruisers can do against Teemo with the new item: Rush these 2 items : Edge of Night item 3814 + Oracle item 3364 = Teemo traps do not work, Teemo blind does not work = Teemo dies without being able to do anything.

From what I remember, Riot has nerfed Quick silver slash item 3140 reasoning that there should not be an item that counters a champion completely. Yet, In preseason of 7 there are: 2 Free item item 3364, item 3341 and which directly disables champion's ULTIMATE, 75 gold item item 2055 which directly disables champion's ULTIMATE, 2 environment that counters Teemo's trap : Scuttle & Plants, Passively sees traps through item 3147

I understand that Teemo is a champion that is hard to balance, since its winrate is high in low ranks, but it is almost impossible to be played well in high ranks. But, just in order to match the balance for low ranks, nerfing the Teemo to ground seems bit unfair as a high rank Teemo player. I would like to have some response from riot. Thank you.

287 Comments

Purpl3Jungl389 votes

I think the comments on this posts are a troll. Teemo is underpowered unless you're playing in b5 where all your AP carries try to 1v1 teemo with AutoAttacks and forget to use all of their abilities so they somehow get him fed.

He's a stupid champion. His Mushrooms aren't strong, they're just annoying and a waste of time. i mean the only time his ult will get him a kill is if someone is on a slither of health and they step on a shroom. Woopie, teemo got a kill.

Leetri14 votes

He's sitting on a 50.2% winrate in Diamond and above. At all ranks he's winning more than he's losing and he's performing decently. He's not great or anything, but he's in a decent spot. He'd probably be slightly higher on the list if Jayce and Kennen weren't as popular, as they shut him down pretty well. So yeah, he's average at all ranks and not just a "Bronzie stomper" champion.

xPiazzax33 votes

He was Challenger 600-700Lp 6-8 months ago if i remember correctly and he cant get past D1 atm.

Anyway, despite Ipav's performances, the real problem is that Teemo's identity was gutted more and more with recent changes, his ultimate can be a non factor really easily just with a free trinket or a 75gold ward.

Its like if riot added a consumable called "Rock" buyable with 100gold which gives you the ability to put it down and block an enemy skillshot, skillshot reliant champs would get nerfed indirectly and some would be completely fucked like blitzcrank. The example is quite extreme but it clarifies the concept.

Btr JG Wins20 votes

This winrate is almost exclusively because if you look at the Top Teemo players Diamond and above, it's all one tricks who have played for years, or iPav's multiple accounts. Artificially inflated.

TotalJerk13 votes

It's more that Teemo is commonly used as a counterpick in high elo. His winrate is inflated because he's less likely to be played into bad matchups.

Messeery35 votes

He needs a rework IMO.

RainbowIcee6 votes

even if he's not in the best state right now a rework would create a huge backlash from the people that love playing him which is a lot of players. He feels fun and satisfying to succeed with. Chaging that to make him a current meta lap dog wouldn't be very appreciated it imo.

Impish Yordle20 votes

I really want to see a rework at this point... It's just getting ridiculous now... If Ryze can have a billion reworks then Teemo can get at least one.

Loli Tamer10 votes

B-but they gave him the ability to throw the shrooms! Boom, counterplay!

Thanks Riot! /s

Elladril19 votes

How to fix Teemo:

  • Put his traps back to 10m duration and make them INVISIBLE - so that only their outline is revealed by oracle/control ward.

  • Add in a new limited duration elixir that people can buy if they want to actually see and kill traps, like old-school oracle elixir.

  • Nothing should DISABLE traps, people should have to kill them or walk around them if they want to avoid them

  • Each application of Teemo's Toxic Shot should have its own dot.

CookyPrince24 votes

A 10 min duration? That's just crazy for something you want to be invisible

Shadragon14 votes

{quoted}

  • Each application of Teemo's Toxic Shot should have its own dot.

That sounds like it's enough to turn Teemo into the next marksman patch Kog'Maw. item 3115 item 3091 item 3124 Boom, nothing in the entire game can stand in your attack range for longer than three seconds. Including Baron.

Valor Bot19 votes

A rework would probably be best. Teemo's point-and-click blind nuke combined with his potential to remain permanently stealthed probably makes him one of the most nightmarish Champions to balance.

His Q should be a skillshot that deals an AoE blind like Quinn's old Q, allowing for that infinite mastery curve that Riot likes about skillshots. Replacing his W with a short hop that lets him traverse terrain would further his thematic as a mobile scout, and turning his E into a toggleable poison that consumes Mana, or a passive that activates/aggresses the DoT after three hits would allow Teemo to control the way he deals damage to minions while alleviating his harass game against melees in the top lane.

Finally, maybe his mushrooms could be changed to allow him to hop along them continuously if they are placed in a bundle/line? Once again playing into his slippery scout thematic.

N0TY0U18 votes

Teemo is just a shit champion right now vs anyone who know what they are doing. Anyone can just useitem 3364/item 2055 walk over all his shrooms and kill him. There's nothing Teemo can do vs item 2055item 3364item 3814!

feryvunny16 votes

Teemo just needs a rework. His kit is VERY old and the only real "modern update" they gave him is his shrooms bouncing on each other and that stealth passive.

He is hard to balance for the same reason why Yorick or Ryze was. Just straight up out-dated kits that are very unfun to play against. Small balance changes can't fix that. It needs an overhaul

Toastersaot12 votes

Teemo probably needs somewhat of a Gameplay Update. The niche that he had for bullying Top Laners has now been taken over by Kennen ,Gnar , and Jayce , who are all also better in team fights.

His damage is all single target. His dueling is rather strong, and is a decent split pusher, but he eventually gets out scaled by someone that he could bully, like Jax ,Tryndamere , or Nasus , as they will eventually tank all of his damage with their ults.

He has a blind, which is a rather unique CC, but besides that his ult slow is mostly just a nuisance to many people. He has very little CC, and this is where he is Outclassed by Gnar ,Kennen , and Jayce , who all have plenty of CC.

However, I know that he is kind of untouchable, since he is the mascot of league, so I dunno.

Meep Man12 votes

Teemo needs a rework, but his kit is so iconic that reworking it is like playing the Operation board game where the community is the red light.

Lady Hammerlock11 votes

It's like they WANT to force teemo into a corner where you can only play him tank or bruiser

Yfrappefort11 votes

As a Teemo main since season 1, I fully support you and find it really sad that every season since season 4 he got nothing but nerfs after nerfs. Most of them coming from map changes (like scuttle or plants) and especially new wards and trinkets.

Riot need to rework Teemo completely because his kit did not age well at all. On the contrary, any new elements added to the game further punish him and his ultimate. The mushrooms should stay but as a basic ability. Give him a new ultimate, something actually impactful that cannot be countered so heavily with a ward...

Anyway, really hoping Riot reply here and update Teemo in season 7.

Salloh11 votes

As a Teemo main I completely agree with IPav.

The real frustrating part is being chased or tossing shrooms into a teamfight only to have them disabled due to a FREE trinket that stays active and moves with the enemy after level 9. In no way should a free item counter a champions kit. Come on Riot you're better than this.

U LoZe10 votes

Riot where are you?

rtbf2256182418 votes

To be honest i feel like his mobility system should be reworked. Whenever he uses Q, all you have to do is walk back and forth to re-engage on top of him because he is usually squishier than you. Even better if you have a control ward/Oracle's ready to negate his shrooms and passive.

LemurMonster8 votes

I been saying before & say it again... He needs a full VGU rework period! Why hasent he got this or any news update on him? Honestly?

Impish Yordle14 votes

Riot's silent treatment is getting irritating. I want Teemo to be a viable champion and not a walking meme that gets used as a cash cow for skins.

LemurMonster7 votes

[{quoted}](name=Renegade Imp,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gG9cwWEv,comment-id=002d0000,timestamp=2016-11-19T21:16:43.451+0000)

Riot's silent treatment is getting irritating. I want Teemo to be a viable champion and not a walking meme that gets used as a cash cow for skins.

This so much. Honestly I do see why some Teemo mains hate the devil skin because I am very sure they feel what you just said.

4K38 votes

13k views, 0 redpost... Yolo by riot.

4K38 votes

Riot???? RIOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT???

Btr JG Wins8 votes

Tweeted Riot and got this: (Morello told me to message SmashGizmo regarding Teemo)

https://postimg.org/image/d2fv4c7v1/

https://s14.postimg.org/lxgpeuwnl/Teemo.jpg

I guess we can take to Twitter and continue to message SmashGizmo as he's apparently the one we are waiting on hearing from.

Zepper7 votes

I think Teemo's design is out of date and he needs a mini rework. Specifically his Passive and his W. Perhaps do something with him like they did with Alistar where they switched his E and passive maybe because right now I think is Passive is useless or isn't necessary to utilize to win games.

Spodos7 votes

Wish we could get a response on this.

Penns6 votes

Difference is that Teemo doesnt rely on his ult for getting kills, champs like Zed or Fiora that got countered by QSS did.

iPav29 votes

{quoted}

Difference is that Teemo doesnt rely on his ult for getting kills, champs like Zed or Fiora that got countered by QSS did.

Teemo can get kills with auto attacks and a blind?..... But Zed and fiora cannot get kills with using spells to slow down people and jumping in? I think you are saying this OPPOSITE way...

Critmaster Garen6 votes

"teemo is constantly getting nerfed"

might want to take a look at his patch history, mate. especially with how riot keeps removing counters to actual stealth with every season.

he was buffed directly in recent patches they removed oracles elixir long ago, and the ability to plant multiple invisible pink wards to clear his shrooms.

really, what youre doing right now is crying that they didnt remove one or 2 mechanics left in this game to deal with his godawful shrooms. not to mention that duskblades passive is on a 90 second cooldown, and sweeper on a 2 minute cooldown.

besides hes actually a decently strong champion right now. there absolutely 0 reason to buff him.

iPav24 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gG9cwWEv,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2016-11-19T13:06:18.617+0000)

"teemo is constantly getting nerfed"

might want to take a look at his patch history, mate. especially with how riot keeps removing counters to actual stealth with every season.

he was buffed directly in recent patches they removed oracles elixir long ago, and the ability to plant multiple invisible pink wards to clear his shrooms.

really, what youre doing right now is crying that they didnt remove one or 2 mechanics left in this game to deal with his godawful shrooms. not to mention that duskblades passive is on a 90 second cooldown, and sweeper on a 2 minute cooldown.

besides hes actually a decently strong champion right now. there absolutely 0 reason to buff him.

Like I said above, he has high winrate in "low rank" I understand that you will feel teemo is strong. But If you have been tracking "high rank" (Master - Challenger), Teemo was absolutely out of the league, yet in this season he has gotten nerfed lot more. I know this better than anyone because in NA server, I am the only master Teemo.

Cloud2732 votes

{quoted}

Like I said above, he has high winrate in "low rank" I understand that you will feel teemo is strong. But If you have been tracking "high rank" (Master - Challenger), Teemo was absolutely out of the league, yet in this season he has gotten nerfed lot more. I know this better than anyone because in NA server, I am the only master Teemo.

It's funny you mention that, because according to op.gg, Teemo is currently sitting at a 60% win rate in master. These numbers come from ranked games over the past month. Now according to the same site, Teemo's win rate is anywhere from 50-60% in plat+ games, depending on which tier you're in. Teemo is not in a bad spot at all.

http://na.op.gg/statistics/champion/

Teemo Mid8 votes

He just said he was the only Master Teemo.

That's only reflecting his win rate if he's the only one playing Teemo aside from a few oddball random picks.

MrNuclearPumpkin19 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gG9cwWEv,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2016-11-19T13:06:18.617+0000)

"teemo is constantly getting nerfed"

might want to take a look at his patch history, mate. especially with how riot keeps removing counters to actual stealth with every season.

he was buffed directly in recent patches they removed oracles elixir long ago, and the ability to plant multiple invisible pink wards to clear his shrooms.

really, what youre doing right now is crying that they didnt remove one or 2 mechanics left in this game to deal with his godawful shrooms. not to mention that duskblades passive is on a 90 second cooldown, and sweeper on a 2 minute cooldown.

besides hes actually a decently strong champion right now. there absolutely 0 reason to buff him.

Hmmm, interesting.

He said teemo is strong in low rank.

And you're complaining about his post saying that he's strong.

You know what that means? You're low rank.

Saianna6 votes

Well made thread. I leave my upvote with you!

Sire Hippington6 votes

I think the main issue is that his shrooms can get disabled in teramfights. Haveing tools to deal with his minefields is very important, and all direct the nerfs to his shrooms were perfectly justifyed(they also recived some buffs, bith direct and indirect aswell), but haveing that new throw and bounce mechanic to enable shrooms in direct fights just to see them getting disabled by serveral items is wrong. It would be nice if shrooms in a certain are around teemo or for the first ~10sec after placeing couldn't be disabled, so he can actually use them properly duering fights.

Also, i wouldn't exactly say he's weak in high elo, his plat+winrate is a solid 50% even with the shrrom detection on duskblade, and the winrate for expereienced teemos is well above average, same for his lategame winrate. If you reffer to master+, there are A LOT of chammps that struggle at that elo, that's not a proper reason for buffs, just how the average struggle of Azir or Ryze is no reason to buff them. Riots delcard balanceing philosophy is balanceing around plat+, where teemo is fine, and dealing with outliners that dominate either low elo or highelo/proplay.

Teemo certainly needs changes, and **not **straight buffs. He's not exactly weak and he remains one of the worst play-against cases in league.( I prefer faceing yasuo and pre nerf tank-ekko over faceing teemo any day)

SlyTactician 6 votes

Completely agreed, when it comes to a point where a low priced item can completely disable a champion's ult of all moves - there's a big problem in general. Riot said they didn't want Akali's W to be countered by pink wards and changed it with the stealth update; however, now Teemo's own ult can be disabled by the control wards. Yes, everyone hates Teemo shrooms; however, it's come to the point where Teemo can no longer rely on his own ult. Imo, he needs some quality of life changes or at least an Alistar rework so he can at least contribute more to his team as right now, he's being countered by so many vision tools.

Imo, they should shift the power from his shrooms to other parts of his kit as it's indeed difficult to balance Teemo due to the nature of his traps. Perhaps a mushroom hopping technique where he can detonate mushrooms for his own mobility so he can actually live up to the title of the SWIFT SCOUT as right now, his W is laughable as an escape tool. He's considered immobile and with his shrooms getting hits from duration cuts/damage nerfs/vision tools, he's just in general becoming less and less reliable.

If Riot really wants to preserve Teemo's kit, then I think they should focus on making Teemo play more like a true marksman with the kiting since the on-hit build is the one that is truly keep Teemo rather relevant in higher elos. AP Teemo is easily countered with the new tools as so much of his damage is concentrated in his shrooms and again, it's difficult to balance such an ult if it comes to the point where Riot had to add an item that can even disable his shrooms. What I'd like to see for Teemo is for him to become a better pick for any team comp as his aggressive kit is punished due to how immobile and squishy his most popular build (AP) makes him to be.

Thanks for making this post iPav. Teemo in nature is a difficult champion to balance as his kit can easily dominate if it's too strong; however, as a result - he's forced to be kept weak due to the power of his shrooms. However, a potential mini rework at least could give him some quality of life changes so he can at least keep relevant to any team at this point of time. This isn't a time where Teemo shrooms would last for nearly a whole duration of a game, they only last for 5 minutes and can even be disabled as well - Teemo needs some quality of life changes.

Impish Yordle6 votes

Right now the shrooms eat up a lot of Teemo's power budget to the point where every single change to the vision infrastructure decides Teemo's (very fragile and bleak) niche in a meta. In addition to that the excessive power put into them kit-wise as they take up his ult-slot made them always run a thin line between being either useless or too toxic. Sure Teemo can still go for other builds but by the end of the day those builds are band-aids that keep him above-water performance-wise but theme-wise and utility-wise there is little reason to choose Teemo over other ranged top laners in such a case. The shrooms decide Teemo's niche and the moment they are out of the picture there’s no reason to pick him over someone else top lane that brings more to the table and can harass just as well:

Want a ranged tanky mallet (ab)user? Go for Gnar Want an AP burster? Go for Kennen Want a ranged hybrid carry? Go for Kayle Want a ranged splitpusher? Go for Quinn Want poke? Go for Jayce

He really needs a rework that solidifies his niche as the disruptor/marksman and makes him more reliable and also more adapted to the game's current design standards. He's in a position similar to pre-rework Fiora and pre-rework Quinn. Not to mention his kit and model are also beyond outdated and the age shows more and more. Teemo players are getting tired of that limbo, not to mention Riot's silence and reluctance to provide any plans or information regarding where Teemo's headed make it all-the-more frustrating.

Impish Yordle5 votes

based rito pls

Salloh4 votes

Guess i'm going to spam Teemo support then....... Riot you made me do this for the better of Teemo...

hahahahaha xddd4 votes

I'm a plat teemo main. I'm not playing this game until teemo gets fixed.

Doseqis3 votes

Decent winrate 50% with a decent sample size means that he is fine

Btr JG Wins21 votes

The winrate numbers are inflated by players like iPav, the real winrate would be much lower.

Rivuo1 votes

Lmao teemo been abusin hurricane fervor while going full AP for the past year and he gets weak Now you want buffs?

Fuck that champ.

Everyones been complainin about ekko abusing items yet teemos been doing the EXACT same thing.

Both those champs need to be deleted

CithriaC10 votes

Teemo isnt really abusing hurricane anymore than adcs.

Kitty Hole1 votes

Its only fair dude, he counters ALOT of AD dependent champs. Teemo is not the only champ that, if at all, struggles with trinkets. If you put a Control Ward in Akali 's mist, she cant hide, also a Control Ward can reveal several other assassins when entering stealth. Not alot of ADC'S have the mobiliy he has too. He can disengage quite efficiently and engage as fast as Rengar. This means that ADC'S are food for Teemo. Etc, all champs have weaknesses.

Rintam6 votes

The control wards only work on the stealth of Evelynn, Rengar and Twitch.

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