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Teemo's state.

iPav·11/19/2016, 9:42:41 AM·244 votes·28,456 views

Hi, this is iPav a Teemo player in current season. I have been playing teemo over 2~3 years. What I have noticed is that Teemo is constantly getting nerfed. From s4, Trap ap ratio -> 0.8 to 0.5, & Scuttle clears river side traps. s5, 10 Mins trap -> 5mins trap, & Red lens disabling Traps (Gave trap the ability to be thrown for teamfight, but traps do not work in teamfight due to 3 items that disables trap) s6 Oracle starts disabling the traps s7 Pinkward ->Control ward starts disabling the traps. & Duskblade Can detract the traps & Plants detect traps

***Now, this is what all the ad bruisers can do against Teemo with the new item: Rush these 2 items : Edge of Night + Oracle = Teemo traps do not work, Teemo blind does not work = Teemo dies without being able to do anything.

From what I remember, Riot has nerfed Quick silver slash reasoning that there should not be an item that counters a champion completely. Yet, In preseason of 7 there are: 2 Free item , and which directly disables champion's ULTIMATE, 75 gold item which directly disables champion's ULTIMATE, 2 environment that counters Teemo's trap : Scuttle & Plants, Passively sees traps through

I understand that Teemo is a champion that is hard to balance, since its winrate is high in low ranks, but it is almost impossible to be played well in high ranks. But, just in order to match the balance for low ranks, nerfing the Teemo to ground seems bit unfair as a high rank Teemo player. I would like to have some response from riot. Thank you.

287 Comments

Purpl3Jungl311/19/2016, 10:18:42 AM89 votes

I think the comments on this posts are a troll. Teemo is underpowered unless you're playing in b5 where all your AP carries try to 1v1 teemo with AutoAttacks and forget to use all of their abilities so they somehow get him fed.

He's a stupid champion. His Mushrooms aren't strong, they're just annoying and a waste of time. i mean the only time his ult will get him a kill is if someone is on a slither of health and they step on a shroom. Woopie, teemo got a kill.

Messeery11/19/2016, 2:00:01 PM35 votes

He needs a rework IMO.

Impish Yordle11/19/2016, 8:39:45 PM20 votes

I really want to see a rework at this point... It's just getting ridiculous now... If Ryze can have a billion reworks then Teemo can get at least one.

Valor Bot11/19/2016, 7:17:16 PM19 votes

A rework would probably be best. Teemo's point-and-click blind nuke combined with his potential to remain permanently stealthed probably makes him one of the most nightmarish Champions to balance.

His Q should be a skillshot that deals an AoE blind like Quinn's old Q, allowing for that infinite mastery curve that Riot likes about skillshots. Replacing his W with a short hop that lets him traverse terrain would further his thematic as a mobile scout, and turning his E into a toggleable poison that consumes Mana, or a passive that activates/aggresses the DoT after three hits would allow Teemo to control the way he deals damage to minions while alleviating his harass game against melees in the top lane.

Finally, maybe his mushrooms could be changed to allow him to hop along them continuously if they are placed in a bundle/line? Once again playing into his slippery scout thematic.

Elladril11/19/2016, 1:06:02 PM19 votes

How to fix Teemo:

Put his traps back to 10m duration and make them INVISIBLE - so that only their outline is revealed by oracle/control ward.
Add in a new limited duration elixir that people can buy if they want to actually see and kill traps, like old-school oracle elixir.
Nothing should DISABLE traps, people should have to kill them or walk around them if they want to avoid them
Each application of Teemo's Toxic Shot should have its own dot.

N0TY0U11/19/2016, 3:50:50 PM18 votes

Teemo is just a shit champion right now vs anyone who know what they are doing. Anyone can just use item 3364 / item 2055 walk over all his shrooms and kill him. There's nothing Teemo can do vs item 3814 !

feryvunny11/19/2016, 6:41:13 PM16 votes

Teemo just needs a rework. His kit is VERY old and the only real "modern update" they gave him is his shrooms bouncing on each other and that stealth passive.

He is hard to balance for the same reason why Yorick or Ryze was. Just straight up out-dated kits that are very unfun to play against. Small balance changes can't fix that. It needs an overhaul

Toastersaot11/19/2016, 2:40:02 PM12 votes

Teemo probably needs somewhat of a Gameplay Update. The niche that he had for bullying Top Laners has now been taken over by Kennen , Gnar , and Jayce , who are all also better in team fights.

His damage is all single target. His dueling is rather strong, and is a decent split pusher, but he eventually gets out scaled by someone that he could bully, like Jax , Tryndamere , or Nasus , as they will eventually tank all of his damage with their ults.

He has a blind, which is a rather unique CC, but besides that his ult slow is mostly just a nuisance to many people. He has very little CC, and this is where he is Outclassed by Gnar , Kennen , and Jayce , who all have plenty of CC.

However, I know that he is kind of untouchable, since he is the mascot of league, so I dunno.

Meep Man11/19/2016, 7:31:15 PM12 votes

Teemo needs a rework, but his kit is so iconic that reworking it is like playing the Operation board game where the community is the red light.

Lady Hammerlock11/19/2016, 3:56:25 PM11 votes

It's like they WANT to force teemo into a corner where you can only play him tank or bruiser

Yfrappefort11/19/2016, 4:40:37 PM11 votes

As a Teemo main since season 1, I fully support you and find it really sad that every season since season 4 he got nothing but nerfs after nerfs. Most of them coming from map changes (like scuttle or plants) and especially new wards and trinkets.

Riot need to rework Teemo completely because his kit did not age well at all. On the contrary, any new elements added to the game further punish him and his ultimate. The mushrooms should stay but as a basic ability. Give him a new ultimate, something actually impactful that cannot be countered so heavily with a ward...

Anyway, really hoping Riot reply here and update Teemo in season 7.

Salloh11/19/2016, 8:33:23 PM11 votes

As a Teemo main I completely agree with IPav.

The real frustrating part is being chased or tossing shrooms into a teamfight only to have them disabled due to a FREE trinket that stays active and moves with the enemy after level 9. In no way should a free item counter a champions kit. Come on Riot you're better than this.

U LoZe11/20/2016, 7:55:59 PM10 votes

Riot where are you?

4K311/20/2016, 4:52:29 PM8 votes

13k views, 0 redpost... Yolo by riot.

Btr JG Wins11/21/2016, 5:32:30 PM8 votes

Tweeted Riot and got this: (Morello told me to message SmashGizmo regarding Teemo)

https://postimg.org/image/d2fv4c7v1/

https://s14.postimg.org/lxgpeuwnl/Teemo.jpg

I guess we can take to Twitter and continue to message SmashGizmo as he's apparently the one we are waiting on hearing from.

4K311/20/2016, 5:47:33 PM8 votes

Riot???? RIOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT???

LemurMonster11/19/2016, 9:12:42 PM8 votes

I been saying before & say it again... He needs a full VGU rework period! Why hasent he got this or any news update on him? Honestly?

rtbf22561824111/19/2016, 12:26:20 PM8 votes

To be honest i feel like his mobility system should be reworked. Whenever he uses Q, all you have to do is walk back and forth to re-engage on top of him because he is usually squishier than you. Even better if you have a control ward/Oracle's ready to negate his shrooms and passive.

Zepper11/19/2016, 7:12:21 PM7 votes

I think Teemo's design is out of date and he needs a mini rework. Specifically his Passive and his W. Perhaps do something with him like they did with Alistar where they switched his E and passive maybe because right now I think is Passive is useless or isn't necessary to utilize to win games.

Spodos11/20/2016, 4:53:17 PM7 votes

Wish we could get a response on this.

Saianna11/19/2016, 1:44:44 PM6 votes

Well made thread. I leave my upvote with you!

Critmaster Garen11/19/2016, 1:06:18 PM6 votes

"teemo is constantly getting nerfed"

might want to take a look at his patch history, mate. especially with how riot keeps removing counters to actual stealth with every season.

he was buffed directly in recent patches they removed oracles elixir long ago, and the ability to plant multiple invisible pink wards to clear his shrooms.

really, what youre doing right now is crying that they didnt remove one or 2 mechanics left in this game to deal with his godawful shrooms. not to mention that duskblades passive is on a 90 second cooldown, and sweeper on a 2 minute cooldown.

besides hes actually a decently strong champion right now. there absolutely 0 reason to buff him.

Sire Hippington11/19/2016, 4:49:35 PM6 votes

I think the main issue is that his shrooms can get disabled in teramfights. Haveing tools to deal with his minefields is very important, and all direct the nerfs to his shrooms were perfectly justifyed(they also recived some buffs, bith direct and indirect aswell), but haveing that new throw and bounce mechanic to enable shrooms in direct fights just to see them getting disabled by serveral items is wrong. It would be nice if shrooms in a certain are around teemo or for the first ~10sec after placeing couldn't be disabled, so he can actually use them properly duering fights.

Also, i wouldn't exactly say he's weak in high elo, his plat+winrate is a solid 50% even with the shrrom detection on duskblade, and the winrate for expereienced teemos is well above average, same for his lategame winrate. If you reffer to master+, there are A LOT of chammps that struggle at that elo, that's not a proper reason for buffs, just how the average struggle of Azir or Ryze is no reason to buff them. Riots delcard balanceing philosophy is balanceing around plat+, where teemo is fine, and dealing with outliners that dominate either low elo or highelo/proplay.

Teemo certainly needs changes, and **not **straight buffs. He's not exactly weak and he remains one of the worst play-against cases in league.( I prefer faceing yasuo and pre nerf tank-ekko over faceing teemo any day)

SlyTactician 11/19/2016, 8:02:07 PM6 votes

Completely agreed, when it comes to a point where a low priced item can completely disable a champion's ult of all moves - there's a big problem in general. Riot said they didn't want Akali's W to be countered by pink wards and changed it with the stealth update; however, now Teemo's own ult can be disabled by the control wards. Yes, everyone hates Teemo shrooms; however, it's come to the point where Teemo can no longer rely on his own ult. Imo, he needs some quality of life changes or at least an Alistar rework so he can at least contribute more to his team as right now, he's being countered by so many vision tools.

Imo, they should shift the power from his shrooms to other parts of his kit as it's indeed difficult to balance Teemo due to the nature of his traps. Perhaps a mushroom hopping technique where he can detonate mushrooms for his own mobility so he can actually live up to the title of the SWIFT SCOUT as right now, his W is laughable as an escape tool. He's considered immobile and with his shrooms getting hits from duration cuts/damage nerfs/vision tools, he's just in general becoming less and less reliable.

If Riot really wants to preserve Teemo's kit, then I think they should focus on making Teemo play more like a true marksman with the kiting since the on-hit build is the one that is truly keep Teemo rather relevant in higher elos. AP Teemo is easily countered with the new tools as so much of his damage is concentrated in his shrooms and again, it's difficult to balance such an ult if it comes to the point where Riot had to add an item that can even disable his shrooms. What I'd like to see for Teemo is for him to become a better pick for any team comp as his aggressive kit is punished due to how immobile and squishy his most popular build (AP) makes him to be.

Thanks for making this post iPav. Teemo in nature is a difficult champion to balance as his kit can easily dominate if it's too strong; however, as a result - he's forced to be kept weak due to the power of his shrooms. However, a potential mini rework at least could give him some quality of life changes so he can at least keep relevant to any team at this point of time. This isn't a time where Teemo shrooms would last for nearly a whole duration of a game, they only last for 5 minutes and can even be disabled as well - Teemo needs some quality of life changes.

Penns11/19/2016, 11:35:41 AM6 votes

Difference is that Teemo doesnt rely on his ult for getting kills, champs like Zed or Fiora that got countered by QSS did.

Impish Yordle11/20/2016, 7:55:56 PM6 votes

Right now the shrooms eat up a lot of Teemo's power budget to the point where every single change to the vision infrastructure decides Teemo's (very fragile and bleak) niche in a meta. In addition to that the excessive power put into them kit-wise as they take up his ult-slot made them always run a thin line between being either useless or too toxic. Sure Teemo can still go for other builds but by the end of the day those builds are band-aids that keep him above-water performance-wise but theme-wise and utility-wise there is little reason to choose Teemo over other ranged top laners in such a case. The shrooms decide Teemo's niche and the moment they are out of the picture there’s no reason to pick him over someone else top lane that brings more to the table and can harass just as well:

Want a ranged tanky mallet (ab)user? Go for Gnar Want an AP burster? Go for Kennen Want a ranged hybrid carry? Go for Kayle Want a ranged splitpusher? Go for Quinn Want poke? Go for Jayce

He really needs a rework that solidifies his niche as the disruptor/marksman and makes him more reliable and also more adapted to the game's current design standards. He's in a position similar to pre-rework Fiora and pre-rework Quinn. Not to mention his kit and model are also beyond outdated and the age shows more and more. Teemo players are getting tired of that limbo, not to mention Riot's silence and reluctance to provide any plans or information regarding where Teemo's headed make it all-the-more frustrating.

Impish Yordle11/20/2016, 9:12:52 PM5 votes

based rito pls

hahahahaha xddd11/24/2016, 10:23:50 PM4 votes

I'm a plat teemo main. I'm not playing this game until teemo gets fixed.

Salloh11/21/2016, 8:29:40 PM4 votes

Guess i'm going to spam Teemo support then....... Riot you made me do this for the better of Teemo...

Doseqis11/19/2016, 4:49:49 PM3 votes

Decent winrate 50% with a decent sample size means that he is fine

Rivuo11/19/2016, 6:29:30 PM1 votes

Lmao teemo been abusin hurricane fervor while going full AP for the past year and he gets weak Now you want buffs?

Fuck that champ.

Everyones been complainin about ekko abusing items yet teemos been doing the EXACT same thing.

Both those champs need to be deleted

Kitty Hole11/20/2016, 1:13:15 PM1 votes

Its only fair dude, he counters ALOT of AD dependent champs. Teemo is not the only champ that, if at all, struggles with trinkets. If you put a Control Ward in Akali 's mist, she cant hide, also a Control Ward can reveal several other assassins when entering stealth. Not alot of ADC'S have the mobiliy he has too. He can disengage quite efficiently and engage as fast as Rengar . This means that ADC'S are food for Teemo. Etc, all champs have weaknesses.