LeBlanc's level 2 is obnoxiously annoying

xLegendary Troll·2/10/2015, 7:43:49 PM·1 votes·2,226 views

Does anyone remember when Yasuo was nerfed because his early game was obnoxiously overpowered? What about Leblanc ? She's banned in China and other regions because of how safe, bursty, and extremely mobile she is. I'm big on counter play and when I lane against her, I usually displace her W to prevent damage, but she can still pop her Q with E and deal tons of damage while rooting me. It's bullshit.

Let's look at raw numbers as an example and see if she really is over powered early game:

Leblanc Level 2 base damage Sigil of Malice: 55/55 Distortion: 85 Total: 195

Velkoz level 2 base damage Plasma fission: 80 Void rift: 30/45 Deconstruction: 45 Total: 200 (phew vel'koz OP)

Zed level 2 base damage Razor shuriken: 75 Mimicked shuriken: 37.5 Total: 112.5

Lissandra level 2 base damage Ice share: 75 Ring of frost: 70 Total: 145

Xerath level 2 base damage Arcanopulse: 80 Empowered W: 90 Total: 170

So this is just a rough example of how much damage she can dish out early game. If you factor in AP ratios, then her Q will do even more damage since each one has a 40% ap ratio. Vel'koz may seem like he does the most, but you can easily walk away from his second void rift and avoid the deconstruction damage altogether at level 2.

I propose they nerf her Q by reducing the ap ratio and base damage of the mark.

20 Comments

AnomalousChimera2/10/2015, 7:50:19 PM4 votes

Leblanc's problem is that her Distortion is nearly unpunishable. She shouldn't be able to blink out until after 0.75 seconds have passed since casting it.

Goosetard2/10/2015, 9:46:43 PM2 votes

Leblanc is supposed to be a deceitful trickster. I don't think a champion should be strictly balanced around a character identity, but it can still offer some insight into how she was made and, if she should be changed, a nice direction for her to take.

Her passive is a really cool mechanic that follows that theme. When her passive pops, it's a mind game between the Leblanc player and her opponents, and (as someone who doesn't play her) I really enjoy being on the opposing side of that situation. When I'm outplayed I feel a sense of admiration, and when I follow up correctly to finish her off I feel a sense of satisfaction.

Distortion, her W, has an element of that: the ability to blink back to where she cast it. There's a mind game going on here, too: predicting what Leblanc will do and trying to plan accordingly. However, my impression of her kit is that she doesn't need to rely on that mental game nearly as much as she should. The combination of such a long dash and lengthy option to blink back in a single spell (not to mention some healthy damage) means that she is reliably more mobile than almost every other midlaner pre-6. Post-6 she can repeat her dash/blink if she feels like it.

Mental games are fun (and create good game play) because they force both players to think several moves in advance. It's a battle of wits to accompany the mechanical skills of each player. However, when Leblanc's mobility is so overloaded, you can think purely reactively instead of thoughtfully and still prosper. Bjerg was quoted some time ago saying that Leblanc was a good pick because she was very "safe." I think he's touching on something close to what I'm talking about. If you want to use your high damage combo, the blink back ensures that you aren't sticking your neck out that far. That notwithstanding, you have a long range slow/root and, post-6, your dash gets twice as big. None of these things necessitate a deceitful mental game between Leblanc and her opponent to produce that insane damage that inspired the OP to post. Of course, if you're pretty good with her kit, when you do think a few moves in advance, things like this happen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDd3diN37pU&feature=youtu.be (was featured on big play spotlight some time ago) Don't get me wrong, this was an impressive play. When I saw it I thought "Wow, they're really good." I also thought "...should a champion be able to do that?" (I also have some opinions about thresh, who also made that play possible, but this isn't the time or place.)

So what's the problem, and what can be done about it? And what the hell does Goose know about anything, anyway? (A lot, nothing, and not very much?) Here's my two cents, and hopefully it furthers the discussion:

I think OP is right in that part of the issue is the damage. I don't want to play mental games with Leblanc early (or, if she does well in lane, at very many stages of the game at all) because if I lose the game the penalty is really, really harsh. Apparently, at level 2, it's the second harshest in the game. Considering how easy it is to land compared to the harshest, that's a pretty raw deal for Leblanc's opponent. However, I think a ham-handed reduction of her damage would be a pretty lousy solution because it doesn't address any of the other issues discussed above. Reducing ranges could make things a bit more forgiving for opponents and some matchups (disregarding that Leblanc does well against skillshots), but is a similarly flawed solution. It's also what happened to Akali, who has since statistically plummeted into obscurity.

I think the mechanics of her Distortion should be augmented to allow for more counterplay and encourage more deception and mind games. Chimera hit the nail on the head when he said that her Distortion is difficult to punish. Right now there's very little incentive for Leblanc not to blink back to the cast point. Giving some incentive or trade-off could make the ability more interesting and forgiving to play against... Reduction in movement speed or similar debuff if she returns, reducing cooldown if she chooses not to return, an additional mana cost for returning, etc. Or making it simply more difficult to return, such as a minimum time limit Chimera suggested, or making the return also a dash instead of a blink. I'm sure there's better and more creative solutions than I've come up with off the top of my head.

Rustling Bush2/10/2015, 7:44:39 PM2 votes

they took her silence and now everyone thinks she trash. lets please keep it that way.

Drukyul2/10/2015, 8:36:33 PM1 votes

[{quoted}](name=xLegendary Troll,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gB97ffqx,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-02-10T19:43:49.174+0000)

Leblanc Level 2 base damage Sigil of Malice: 55/55 Distortion: 85 Total: 195

Nautilus level 2 base damage Dredge Line: 60 Riptide: 120 Staggering Blow: 14 (1 AA is pretty much guaranteed after Dredge Line, but since you ignored the actual AA damage so will I) Total: 194

Ratbert2/11/2015, 2:48:56 AM1 votes

That's like saying brand is op with q>w dealing roughly 170+16% max hp. Keep in mind resource costs and how well lb (famous for being only able to farm champs) farms without her escape.

ForgiveColour2/12/2015, 9:47:48 PM1 votes

this is what the the bronzies on board will tell you to do

-stand at your turret after level 2 for whole laning phase so she cant qw you

Bears Dont Care2/10/2015, 8:04:13 PM1 votes

Itt, people list numbers without context. Velkoz inflicts true damage making him stronger.

Zed is an ad champ so his abilities wont scale as hard base damage wise due to autoattacks.

Lissandra and xerath both have greater range and or cc than leblanc as well as aoe damage capability

Per Favore2/10/2015, 8:23:19 PM1 votes

If you bait her dash you can hit her pretty reliably. There's been plenty of games where I line up for a cs knowing she's going to try and get me so I throw out my skill shots preemptively and she runs into them losing the trade. I've done it with morg q and velkoz e plenty of times. Though, she can avoid this by mixing up her timing, and its very hard to hit her on reaction.