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@Meddler/Statikk: Fizz rework question

Landorin·10/19/2016, 4:13:11 PM·4 votes·10,170 views

In the introductory post for the smaller assassin reworks a couple of weeks ago, Statikk posted this as part of the blurb about the Fizz changes:

"We also want to give Fizz a bit more flexibility in the lane especially when he’s on the back foot and forced to just last hit minions."

Now that the changes are on the PBE, can we get some clarification about what's meant here? After crunching the numbers, the damage Fizz deals to a single target is roughly the same as live in the best case scenario (full W proc and max range ult), but it seems his consistency went down the drain as the damage is loaded onto those two situational triggers. I'd hoped that this was to compensate for a stronger laning phase with more fallback patterns, but the new W reset basically just functions like the current W under tower, and Q applying the DoT to all minions it hits seems like it will see little use when you're being pressured by the enemy laner (but maybe helps with shove + roam a little).

Is there something else coming down the pipe or are these changes more or less finalized?

Unfortunately I don't have a PBE account so some of this is speculative -- I apologize.

19 Comments

RiotShrieve10/21/2016, 7:21:50 AM7 votes

Hey Landorin. Your questions are totally understandable with or without access to PBE so no worries there.

Let me start off by saying things are not finalized; with PBE we often start with a changelist that tested well during internal playtests and iterate from there. We're keeping a close eye on Fizz's performance in PBE games and feedback from the boards. We've heard concerns over the strain of W on Fizz's mana pool and changes to his damage output. Here's a breakdown covering where we're moving the needle next on the PBE:

  • W - Seastone Trident

  • ** Mana Refund**: 50% -> 100%

    • Note: mana is refunded regardless by any Active hit, charged or uncharged (not a new change)

  • AP Ratios:

    • Passive (DoT): .3 -> .33
    • Uncharged Active Hit:_ .3 -> .33_
    • Charged Active Hit: .9 -> 1.0

  • E - Playful/Trickster

  • ** Mana Cost**: 90/100/110/120/130 -> 90/95/100/105/110

  • R - Chum the Waters

  • Seastone Interaction: W Passive is applied to all enemies hit by the shark

  • Note: this is in addition to being applied on initial application of the fish

  • Fish Orbit: made long range R more reliable by increasing fish attachment radius

  • Base Damage:

    • Small Shark: 140/290/440 -> 150/300/450
    • Medium Shark: 240/390/540 -> 250/400/550
    • Big Shark: 340/490/640 -> 350/500/650

  • AP Ratios:

    • Small Shark: .5 -> .6
    • Medium Shark: .75 -> .9
    • Big Shark: 1.0 -> 1.2

On to your initial questions about the laning phase... I do agree that output-wise the new W is functions similar to live W when last hitting minions. However one aspect that's not apparent from the new W's tooltip is that it now also resets your auto-attack timer.

Between the auto-attack reset and higher bonus magic damage at all ranks (charged or uncharged) it's pretty effective at last hitting minions. Spread your W Passive with a couple of auto-attacks or Q's dash, let the DoT tick a couple of times, auto-attack, W hit, rinse-repeat. If you're being pressured under tower forgo the DoT and charged damage and go for some simple auto, reset with W attacks. The average CS and hence gold has gone up quite substantially from our tests.

Updates like what Fizz is going through are quite iterative, and PBE is just another step in that process. Depending on how things shake out over the next few weeks we have quite a few possibilities in mind for our little Trickster.

Let me know if you have any other questions!

Jbels10/19/2016, 4:16:17 PM1 votes

The other change to his W is that when he kills a unit with the auto after activating it, it refunds half the cost of the spell and heavily reduces it's cooldown. This will be invaluable for farming under tower. I think that's what they meant

J Eevo10/19/2016, 6:21:31 PM1 votes

Had another look at the changes on S@20 and it seems there's a change that went unnoticed:

His Q now applies W to every unit Fizz passes through during the dash.

How effective it is at clearing waves, I've no idea. If it were W from live I'd say not too effective, but with the new one I can't say.

Greedwalker10/22/2016, 12:16:36 AM1 votes

I got a steady feeling that you overbuff him too much. All other assasins get something like pros and cons, i.e. full rework, but fizz, as it sounds to me, got only buffs. I cant see fizz as a weak champion for now, moreover, his e lack a lot of a counterplay if you are a melee champion. If you struck near, fighting, both got low hp - there is no way you can dodge his e, when he jump upon a pole. No time to react, no possibility to juke it. It's all upon either you got a flash, either you die. I would like to see at least 0.5 s delay between targeting and jumping. So it should make flashy moves even flashier, and give nice field for the mind tricks. I believe this is what you aimed for when described an assasin rework. Because as it is now it's pretty unhealthy, if you ask my opinion.