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Why the game doesn't need more Buffs right now, Nerfs are what League needs (Polite Version)

noukinn·1/11/2018, 8:28:26 PM·280 votes·6,579 views

The simple fact that you can look at any match from any Ranked tier in the game and see characters from each of the classes taking 50% or more of their HP from just a couple basic abilities or BASIC ATTACKS speaks volumes about the negative state of the game right now.

Tanks should not be allowed to deal consistent chunks of damage while building no offense at all solely because they have a single ability or more with base %Max HP damage or Defense=Damage scaling. Examples: Maokai Chogath Ornn Malphite Rammus They are meant to be sources of crowd control that soak up enemy damage for their team, not boss level DPS bots that can solo-kill any lone target and need two or more enemies at a time to keep them under control.

Marksman shouldn't be allowed to deal such consistent and massive damage in an instant, they are a DPS class meant for whittling down targets from afar with steadily applied ranged attacks, they are NOT assassins that should be able to cheaply pick up ranged point and click burst with a ridiculously short self-lowering cooldown item 3094 item 3087 item 3031

Assassins should be able to pop their targets with clever positioning and the skill to land all of their abilities on those targets, they SHOULDN'T be able to do it in a single hit, two if the target built defensively, solely due to an absurdly cheap and overloaded item item 3147 or thoughtlessly high base damage and scaling on easily landed basic abilities.

Fighters that aren't Shyvana XinZhao are meant to be a class that dives into fights in order to disrupt positioning and hopefully blitz down HVTs before they're able to use their abilities to turn a fight in their favor, instead the vast majority of them are completely outclassed by most tanks due to their lack of high damage while building pure defense to actually survive going after those targets. They're simply not able to reliably pick off those HVTs because they'll by default have more than enough distance and damage to pick that oversized mosquito off in no time because they'll most likely deal pitiful damage since they can't reliably live long enough to proc their PTA.

Mages are meant to be ranged spellcasters that control the flow of a fight over time with well placed abilities, instead they're played more like glorified chefs that all build practically identical full squishy damage with room for only TWO personal itemizations item 3151 item 3020 item 3135 item 3165 and roll their faces across their keyboards in the hopes of either killing an enemy before they die instead or at least burning most of the target's HP and Summs so their ADC can gorge themselves on the free gold with a skillful item 3094 auto.

And Supports? Supports are just enablers, that is their only job in this game, to enable busted champs with bonus item slots and effects, they have no real agency over the flow of the game on their own and rely solely on fluffing up the coattails of the over-tuned, and if the people in that role end up picking carries and mages and go full squishy damage instead of a buffer/CC champ... well then they're aren't really playing a supportive role are they? They're just a second mage, working on cooking up those free kills for their ADCs.

If the game has any hope of returning to a skill-based state then these things need to change, and the best way to start that is by:

  • Hitting the brakes full stop on all Buffs

  • Taking a look at the state of the game and who is currently performing better than the rest

  • Tweaking them down stat by stat champ by champ and thus steadily opening up the Champion pool so that it can provide better data to improve decision making on champs that consistantly showed signs of struggle

  • THEN you can finally begin thinking about SMALL INCREASES OR SHIFTS IN STATS.

138 Comments

NoSkillShreking1/11/2018, 8:36:56 PM72 votes

Here's hoping we can get this one up to the front too, give those: "Oh you were mean so your point is mute" idiots a slap to the face.

GGLineaR1/11/2018, 9:17:55 PM34 votes

{quoted} Tanks should not be allowed to deal consistent chunks of damage while building no offense at all solely because they have a single ability or more with base %Max HP damage or Defense=Damage scaling. Examples: Sion

At the risk of sounding nitpciky, Sion doesn't really belong up there.

His damage falls off pretty hard once people start getting items; unless you feed your ass off early game, Sion can't do much in terms of damage unless he builds it, and while health stacking is valuable, he still needs to build bruiser, or full tank to be of use to his team.

Because let's be real, how often is Sion's zombie passive actually helpful? If he doesn't build tank, he's going to be worthless past 15 minutes.

Complaining about Support Sion is understandable, because dodging so many of your own minions while trying to cs is cancer. There should be tweaking done so he isn't as viable in the botlane.

But given that 80% of his damage is highly telegraphed, or based on your max health, unless he's building straight damage, or maybe bruiser, he won't be doing much but CC against anyone but tanks.

Sorry for the text wall, and I do agree with the rest of your post. But Sion is fine right now. He could use tweaks so he's not cheesing botlane, but that's about it.

Anatera1/11/2018, 9:41:19 PM28 votes

Riot is always correct. The game is in the best state it's EVER been. These changes are bad for instant gratification Call of Duty players and therefore should not be implemented. The majority of players enjoy a 20 minute game with no potential for counterplay, which is why Riot should cater to them and only them because that is what good business strategy is.

ModCaptainMårvelous1/12/2018, 8:12:14 AM16 votes

I actually disagree, but it requires a bit more thought. See, Riot used to think exactly like you do now:

http://www.nerfnow.com/img/737/1186.png

This comic is over 5 years old. We're talking S1/S2 league here. Maybe S3? Hard to carbondate such an old comic. Anyways, part of the issue with doing flat nerfs to everything isn't that it fixes the problem. Rather, it just scales the problem back. Let's say you have a messy house and to deal with it you just burn down a room. Sure, you removed some of the mess but your house is still overall messy. You didn't vacuum the room and make a net positive change, you just lowered the overall raw number count. The mess is still a problem.

As an additional note, you're denying a core philosophy of games: Buffs, overall, feel better to players than nerfs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsC8io4w1sY

If Riot went with your suggestion of having (a) patch(s) of nerfs, players wouldn't actually like this sort of thing. Oh, sure, you can argue the boards would be ecstatic that there's a giant nerf to everything that is perceived as OP but the perception would be that this is just a weakening patch. A patch with nothing added or a patch with no merit other than a marker/milestone of S+ being brought down to S while the C tier remains C tier.

However, I want to touch on a major point in your argument:

THEN you can finally begin thinking about SMALL INCREASES OR SHIFTS IN STATS.

This, to me, is a bigger problem than anything you listed. Part of the problem I see with Riot balance (good or bad) is that it's reliant so heavily on raw numbers and metrics. If a champion gets buff, CD is lowered or mana cost is reduced. If a champ is nerfed, it's raised. DPS numbers go up or down. IMO, this leads to more balance problems down the road. You're completely focusing champion worth on what fat numbers they bring to the table, not the mechanics or the things they do.

There should be buffs but, instead of raw numerical changes, Riot should look into buffing (and maybe nerfing) things that are strong in a champion's kit but things that don't directly correlate to a raw numerical increase. For example: Brand recently got a buff to his passive that upped the number. This makes him deal more damage but, unless he can damage more, he's not actually better. He just got a bigger number. What if, instead of raising that number, we buffed Brand's passive a different way? For some examples:

  • His passive now procs on large/epic monsters (On the PBE now)
  • His radius on his passive is increased.
  • Brand's passive deals the same damage but lasts longer (IE: 2% HP over 5 seconds instead of 4)

None of these directly buff brand's raw numbers. Instead, they buff his ability to get his passive off and empower one of the unique things about his kit. These are the types of buffs that I feel Riot should look at. That said, I can't blame you for wanting less buffs. The way Riot buffs has probably left a sour taste in your mouth and the notion of buffing might look more like a big ol' number boost than a way to help a champion do their job.

WiegrafOfValor1/11/2018, 9:22:02 PM9 votes

You are absolutely right. You put every complain I have in meaningful words that I couldn't ever put myself.

Sadly it will be ignore by rioters that are too busy reading rainbow comment chain post or someone thanking them for something.

Anyway, take my upvote and let's hope for the best.

Attticus Finch1/12/2018, 12:00:36 AM6 votes

Riot will never universally nerf damage across the board because the game is (moronically) balanced around pro-play and pro-matches lasting forever is an issue they haven't been able to fix. Riot wants the game to be short and lethal.

Invidie1/11/2018, 9:20:48 PM5 votes

great post, but dont think Riot's balancing team is intelligent enough to realize that tanks does too much damage, crit items are too dam cheap

D4M2X01/11/2018, 8:43:11 PM3 votes

so their ADC can gorge themselves on the free gold with a skillful item 3094 auto.

i think you meanitem 3087