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Kindred's Ult / Rework or adjust?

Spiffy Neko·12/27/2018, 7:24:32 AM·6 votes·3,355 views

Been playing a lot of Kindred lately, like I mean, I just rushed them to a 6 mastery in a span of a few days.

And I really hate to say it, since I'm sure it's been said, but every single game I play as Kindred, I swear at least one person on my own team will complain about my ult accidentally, or potentially, saving an enemy champion.

I feel like the ult's usefulness is lacking in the current meta. Yes, you can potentially save yourself and your teammates, but you can also save the enemy champions, which makes it almost pointless to use in any teamfight OR even when 1v1ing a champion. If you can't 1v1 a champion without the ult, then you can't 1v1 them even WITH the ult. Because, all the ult will do, is possibly save you and the enemy champion for 2 or 3 more seconds before eventually the enemy champion obliterates you.

Personally, I love everything about Kindred's kit and I wouldn't really change it at all, besides the ult, which is the only over-glaring issue I see with it after playing about 60+ games in the span of 4 or 5 days as Kindred.

I feel like the ult would be more useful if Kindred had the traditional range of an ADC because then she would be in the back-line of the team fight and then have some real potential to save herself or her allies without saving enemy champions. But, on the downside, Kindred's whole kit is about chasing/pursuing and being in the middle of the fight.

I will add though, the ult CAN possibly be useful if you have the perfect team comp with it. Such as, a champion that can knock enemy champions OUT of the ult. But, this is extremely niche, and therefore I don't think it should even be considered, as there simply aren't that many champions with a knock-away that isn't an ult. ( tristana, lee sin, gragas, etc. are champions that CAN knock away people, but only with an ult. )

If you think Kindred's ult IS useful then feel free to tell me which scenarios you think it would be useful in. I'm just seeing way more cons than pros with it at the moment, and I'm honestly tired of my teammates harassing me for using my ult, which is supposed to be an essential part of a champion's kit. I find myself, most times, just avoid using it all together because it causes more trouble than good.

15 Comments

Hupsis12/27/2018, 10:43:36 AM4 votes

Kindred's overall design needs to include Wolf more in the duo and Riot is aware of this. If their ult were to change, I'd hope it became something that involves Wolf. They are 'The Eternal Hunters' so perhaps something that fits that theme would be nice.

Send Wolf in a target direction to seek out the closest enemy champion. Wolf leaves behind a trail which Lamb can follow with increased movement speed. After finding its target Wolf bites them dealing damage and putting them asleep.

I'm not a huge fan of the current ult. It feels more fitting for a support character. If Kindred needs a death evading mechanic, there are other ways to do that, for example a short duration death immunity when taking lethal damage.

Moonshade12/27/2018, 8:04:45 AM4 votes

Kindred ultimate is a very thematic ultimate without being much use for them personally. It's good for dueling, main trick I've read is to beat enemy down to the invulnerability stage, then stack E to 2 on them before the heal pops, AAing the last stack just as it does: the wolf AA is slow so it should land just after the heal pops and the enemy becomes vulnerable. The critical damage should proc and kill your opponent.

Thematically I would say maybe make a reverse Kindred ultimate: expand the radius and make it so no enemy within the area can heal and they have a resistance shred, while maybe adding additional damage to Kindred's mark if they're inside kinda like Camille R? Still kinda fits Kindred's theme as the embodiment of death since it brings her targets/foes closer to their demise.

Only other idea is maybe reformatting it into an execute kinda like Urgot's or Pyke's or something since R is supposed to represent Lamb, embodiment of a Merciful Peaceful End while Wolf represents a Violent End. What's more peaceful than an execute? Ending your enemy's suffering. Maybe make it a literal Lamb's Arrow kinda like Ashe's R except it puts a debuff on whoever is caught in the explosion that causes them to be executed if they fall below an HP threshold

Aquaric12/27/2018, 12:43:34 PM3 votes

I love Kindred so much but I don't use her ult often because it will put me in a weird spot since it is like a deathmatch with the enemy. So, I really hope that riot will rework her ult soon.

Maybe her ult can be some sort of like Thresh, if the enemy leave the circle they will be dealt a ton of damage by Wolf while Lamb will deal percentage health damage to enemy in the circle. This will really suit their style since Lamb kill those who are willing to go and Wolf kill those who run away from death.[sg-kiko]

LTK KoRo12/27/2018, 10:33:09 AM2 votes

Kindred ult is the only thing that DOESN'T need reworking in her hit. (yes, i know it's "them", but i don't care since their gameplay and in-game model doesn't shows that well enough).

Entirety of Kindreds kit is statchecking piece of crap. Seriously, you can't outplay Kindred damage, dodge them or wait for CDs. Kindred just AAs+Qs you to death, or she dies. Kindred doesn't have any relevant counterplay when she's strong. Give her a rework pls.

iiGazeii12/27/2018, 8:20:31 AM2 votes

I think Kindred needs a minor update, like what Ezreal's got. Their kit doesn't really capture their dualistic nature. Wolf is a particle effect for Lamb's abilities.

The ult is... Interesting. It has the potential to save a teamfight, but it honestly feels like Kindred is too squishy to gank in the early game without it. At best, it turns a kill into a toss up while maybe wasting an enemy ult, and it can get so much worse than that.

I'm personally for getting the ult totally reworked. I'd love to see it become a transformation ability similar to Elise or Jayce. It would be available at level 1 and Kindred wouldn't have a huge powerspike at level 6, but the player could actively switch between Lamb and Wolf. Lamb would remain a ranged marksman, and Wolf would be a melee bruiser or assassin. They would each have different abilities that complement each other and encourage the player to swap between the two continuously to essentially be in two places at once.

If it had to stay, then tipping the scales more in Kindred's favor would be nice. Having the threshold where you stop taking damage be a flat value rather than percentile would help them greatly, as they have low max health to begin with, so most enemies come out with more health than them. Making enemies in the area take bonus damage while active would also make it easier for Kindred to actually bring them down that minimum would be great. Allowing the zone to linger for a short time to provide a damage resist to allies standing in it that scales with missing health would also help Kindred stand their ground and win the slaughterfest that starts once people can die.

As for the rest of their kit, it's pretty solid, but it could still be improved. Like I said, Wolf is basically a particle effect, so having the W untether Wolf from Lamb and allowing the player to control him like a pet within that zone would help sell the dualism fantasy and would make the ability more interactive than just "you do more damage in this zone".

As just a general improvement, I think there should be multiple camps marked on the map. Wolf would mark a risky camp (i.e., in enemy territory) that granted more stacks and maybe even a small buff for taking that risk, but also a safer option on your side of the map that doesn't have as big of a reward. This would make it harder for the enemy to zone Kindred away from stacks and would make their movements less predictable. If they are behind, they can still slowly get stacks with the safe option, but if they can afford the risk, they can stack up marks faster.

RRmin Hammer1/29/2020, 6:42:43 AM1 votes

Her ult sucks currently but the only thing they need to do is give her control over the field.

Like let her reactivate the r to deactivate the field since a lot of the time her q will accidentally proc the e on the person you stacked within it. Plus letting her deactivate it will give her control of when she wants to proc her e on The champs marked inside instead of having to awkwardly wait without using her q which leaves her a sitting duck in the middle of her ult till the end

If She chooses to deactivate her r there’s no heal and the cd is refunded by 40%. If not there is a universal heal. And wala she’s fixed

Th3KindredSpirit12/27/2018, 8:07:46 AM1 votes

I feel like the ult would be more useful if Kindred had the traditional range of an ADC because then she would be in the back-line of the team fight and then have some real potential to save herself or her allies without saving enemy champions.

Problem with giving Kindred a traditional ADC range is that Kindred can increase their range through their passive so if they started with a traditional adc range Lambs range would easily become extremely high through a few passive stacks.

I feel like the ult's usefulness is lacking in the current meta. Yes, you can potentially save yourself and your teammates, but you can also save the enemy champions, which makes it almost pointless to use in any team fight OR even when 1v1ing a champion. If you can't 1v1 a champion without the ult, then you can't 1v1 them even WITH the ult. Because, all the ult will do, is possibly save you and the enemy champion for 2 or 3 more seconds before eventually, the enemy champion obliterates you.

Of course, ther ults supposed to be a niche ability that can be used in special situations and if you can't 1v1 an enemy champ it just means you're weak or they just counter you and you can't do much until you have more items and stacks for your passive. Not to mention using your ult in these situations can potentially save you by helping you hold out till someone comes to help you out + their ult works great with their kit and in these situations, if Kindred is low and their enemy is low and Kindred ults they are both kept low and can't kill each other, when the ult is going to end and heal everyone it will heal you both a little but Kindred can kill the enemy quite easily as she can drop her w and e and q to kite back as the ult is ending so the enemy is crippled and with 2 more autos you can execute them pretty easily.

Overall i think Kindred's ult is fine, it's a high-risk high reward ult, it can save your whole team in dire situations but it can also save your enemies lives so its niche ult. And tbh I think their ult is fine like this it's a nice niche mechanic and if they changed it to affect allies it would just be absolutely broken.

In conclusion, Kindred's fine right now and Kindred is a hard champ to change and fix because of their ability to gain stacks that increase Lambs range and buff their abilities would be hard to work around therefore they aren't touched on much (I mean at least they aren't completely abandoned like my boy Azir + Ryze & Kalista).

14daysuspensionk12/27/2018, 9:14:43 AM1 votes

Kindreds kit is all about what their lore says, they decide whenever someones death is coming. 2 types of death, and that's why they're like ying yang. Either one of the masks show how the person died. I don't remember how, but I hink it's something like, dying peacefully or brtually...? I can't exactly make up any comparisons of the kit to the lore, but the AA sure fits, lamb uses the arrow to kill. The E is explained by how people get killed by wolf id they don't want the arrow. Maybe the ult is to give them a bit of mercy, idk.

FrickMeAss12/27/2019, 11:59:25 AM1 votes

For me, i think their entire kit has many holes in it and i too believe they require a change

First off, Kindred's passive marks must be reworked to only let their team be able to see, or she will be raped constantly. Also consider a buff for when she is fighting the marked camp, like a heal depending on the amount of time taken to kill the camp

Secondly, her Q should have more range and less cooldown so she can go in and out of fights easier or if someone like Lee Sin kicks her and she doesnt have enough mobility she's gonna get raped. Additionally they can add something like a second cast to leap back from where she started?

Thirdly, her W is totally terrible as of now. They have to bring back the healing. I think they can consider 1.true sight inside AoE . 2.champion/ low health minion targeting . 3. If someone leaves the circle Wolf flies out to hit a crit on them . 4. Passive: Whenever Wolf deals damage lamb gets healed for 50%of that damage

Their E can also get a buff that enables Kindred to do more damage with it stacking with their Q and their Q targeting those with the E on them, shooting all three arrows from Dance of Arrows to immediately hit a crit

Their R can get buffed to Grant invincibility to allies so you cant be damaged but only allied teammates get the heal and the invincibility and enemies will only have the inability to die, and half stats if they enter the circle. When the duration ends, teammates get a movement speed buff and enemies get slowed.

Think this would be beneficial to Kindred's kit. Whaddyall think

Spiffy Neko12/27/2018, 7:46:26 AM1 votes

I wanted to also add that I'm not entirely sure what would be better in place of this ult. I'm not saying the ult needs to be changed entirely, but maybe adjust it so that it isn't so hard or so niche to use properly. Her ult is almost exactly what Bard's ult is, except worse, in my opinion. ( then again, I am not a Bard main, so I can't really say that with 100% certainty, all I'm saying is Bard's ult stop everything, even towers. )