@Repertoir Mage's itemization rework failed and it should be addressed.

Seviel Vorose·5/31/2018, 6:02:19 PM·96 votes·19,422 views

is the way to go item for 80% of the mage roster just like old was. Nobody builds , and after the nerfs, is build by only a couple of champions. Every mage literally builds the** same items every game with few exceptions**.

Please, it's time to admit the rework accomplished nothing.

I don't care about mages being strong or weak, i don't want to be the only class in the game that has to become useless mid fight because my mana has run out and i have no way to get it back.

125 Comments

wildfox995/31/2018, 7:16:00 PM36 votes

the problem is still the same : AP items only gives raw stats and actives/passives aren't interesting at all and mostly offer more uninteractive damage (except for item 3145 items,but item 3146 is so niche and item 3152 is never used for its initial purpose : giving a dash to immobile champions),so the one that gives more damage for the cheaper cost is the best

while AD items on top of giving stats and damaging passives gives some useful effect ( item 3094 on top of giving an empowered AA makes the passive charge faster and increase your AA range, item 3285 passive is just some damage and nothing else)

don't forget then that while each AD subclass have its own items all APs share the same items,there are no AP assassin or bruiser items

at the beginning i like the idea of making a different start item for each playstyle,but then they overnerfed item 3030 making it useless for chasing (why slowing someone if you don't deal him damage?),removing its damage they removed the start for the ones that didn't want anything but damage

they overbuffed and then nerfed item 3003

and now we have luden that is covering all those playstyles (its passive can be used both for bursting or poking,it deals so much damage early game that even a champion supposed to scale in lategame starts to oneshoot people)

srsly,revert the item 3030 active changes and make the item 3003 stack faster on champions that can't spam (for example giving stacks based on how mana your ability used,long CD abilities usually have an high mana cost),then just make Mpen less mandatory and items like item 3116 can come back

atm AP have less runes,less items and you can't even choose them,they have a mandaroty build...

Packun Flower5/31/2018, 6:09:02 PM22 votes

They fucked up mages so bad, I 100% agree the rework failed horribly but I'm at that point in life where I think the fewer Riot touches and destroys something the better.

ModWulf Helhammer5/31/2018, 6:21:18 PM13 votes

That's because the majority of mages just want an item that increases poke. There aren't very many champs that need the amount of mana Tear gives, and not many need the catch potential of GLP.

Hethalean5/31/2018, 6:11:57 PM12 votes

Well mages will typically be attracted to a group of stats that are common attractive stats for other mages. Luden's is just that item for now. Hextech isn't THAT bad of an item. I think people just are lazy and would prefer a non activateable item unless that active is just OP as all get out.

The one thing it DID accomplish though is that the first staple item on all mages doesn't have grievous wounds stapled onto it. That is considerable.

TeCoolMage6/1/2018, 5:11:26 AM8 votes

I seriously think it's over exaggerating to say that the mage item rework was a 'failure'. In the boards community it's starting to be like one of those situations where someone cleans their desk like a normal person and then says "oh em gee I'm such an oh see dee!"

They set down the foundation through haste passive and adding multiple mana items that could compete once the stats are balanced. That's a pretty big success

I think the problem stems from:

Seraph's requires constant casting which isn't viable on a lot of champs, and there's this weird counterintuitive strategy where you cast in base
If you buy Seraph's you'll almost always want RoA (except for when Seraph's was OP), you almost never want RoA without Seraph's. The two just synergize so well.
Seraph's is the only defensive option out of the three lost chapter items and gives the most AP and mana. It's hidden behind a time barrier out of necessity but at the same time champions who just want early-mid game defensive itemization without all this extra AP and mana (as it'd up the cost, or have a barrier). However it's important to note defensive itemization can mess up laning phase if it's overly efficient!
GLP and Luden's usually overtake and invalidate each other because... People only think about damage? I don't know. They're two completely different items in my eyes. I think it's because how the items are used in this meta, etc. since in this meta I think mages are measured by how quickly they can oneshot squishies and how often (ahem since tanks buy 1 MR item and ignore magic damage, and mages have double pen and kits balanced around bursting even if they're artillery or battlemages but that's for another time). Otherwise no clue.
Some playstyles might not feel included because all the different mages can't really be fit into three items

So the goals Riot needs to work towards is: make Seraph's and RoA good independent items (or RoA at least), create lost chapter items for all playstyles including defensive options, change GLP or Luden's to differentiate

I can see a Tiamat/jg item like system where you buy one lost chapter and get several build paths for it (only can pick one though). But I'm not sure. Would love to see a mana item build out of aegis of the legion (and it won't be OP in laning phase since most mid lane champions are only of a single damage type. It'd be inefficient)

For RoA/Seraph's, make tear based on time like RoA instead of per cast. Buff RoA's stats, but make RoA and Seraph's/tear's mana (either the base, or the mana gained, or both) a unique passive that doesn't stack except for the purpose of Seraph's Awe. This is probably the best solution imo since RoA is a pretty cool item but if I don't build Seraph's I lack mana, so I build just Seraph's instead (and many people build both)

The problem with AP having more actives and passive than it already does, as people keep suggesting, is that while you get build diversity, you get less viable playstyles (think redemption locket supports) and you're just recreating the problem with runes... At an active/passive (completely disregarding stats, efficiency, and other factors) level, I'd rather be a mage than ADC (wow my cookie clicker can either be a lightning bolt, or make me faster!! taps mouse like a neurotic old person) or support (123456 oh what are these weird items in my QWER slots???).

Zullar6/1/2018, 6:54:53 AM7 votes

Agreed AP item's need another rework. I pretty much build same stuff every time no matter who I'm playing or who I'm playing against.

And magic pen is silly too. Think about it... -If they build MR then you build magic pen. -If they don't build MR then you still build magic pen.

Where's the choices?

I really miss deathfire touch mastery to be honest. It was interesting option to have a multi-target damage-over-time mastery for doing moderate damage to multiple champions in an extended teamfight. All keystones are single target burst! Why do we need 10 different single target burst keystones with 0 multi-target keystones (and don't say comet) and 0 damage-over-time keystones? Where's the variety?!

KoKoboto5/31/2018, 11:36:22 PM6 votes

I agree. I don't think the update was bad but it definitely didn't do its job of opening up mage itemization. item 3907 Could use some buffs or changes to make it more interesting

Otherworldz6/1/2018, 4:27:42 AM5 votes

The AP item update was lead by PhRoXzOn not Riot Repertoir. If you're going to put a Rioter on blast at least call out the right one.

The AP item update did introduce more build variety, and better build options by the way. There are definitely some aspects of the AP item update that failed but there were also positive things along with the negative like any update.

Keshaun5/31/2018, 11:27:55 PM4 votes

I do miss the old item 3165 . Shall it rest in peace.

item 3030 is such a niche item, but the old build path and active damage / slow was better than the current iteration.

item 3285 should also be reverted because the AD counterpart is item 3094 since they both give an empowered damaging spell / AA. It shouldn't give more damage once charged and give mana in my opinion.

item 3003 is honestly balanced. Once the item is fully charged, you should receive the bonus AP. Rushing first item and immediately getting 75 - 100 AP before it was fully stacked was kinda ridiculous.

The one thing I did like after all those changes was item 3165 and item 3151 . Finally giving AP champs a grievous wounds item that isn't irrelevant (below 20% health .. cmon now). The bonus damage while in combat from is also good too!

In conclusion, I say we revert item 3165 , item 3030 , item 3285 and keep item 3151 and (AP grievous wounds item given a different name) and all is well!

Lunar Lunacy6/1/2018, 11:03:20 AM3 votes

As a Diana one trick, I CAN build item 3285 , but usually don't need the mana that much so I opt into other items for damage most of the time. item 3165 is a good item, I love the magic pen and the healing reduction, plus a little health never hurts. I do agree fully that item 3030 gets almost no use whatsoever and needs to be changed. As for item 3003 , buffing it is dangerous or we end up getting unkillable mages who can spam spells endlessly.

Wild Geese5/31/2018, 8:51:04 PM3 votes

Because of item 3003 we got to have all our mana nerfed though because it gives too much mana!

IT still does! Horray for this dumb item ruining build diversity!

Giga Baboon5/31/2018, 9:52:28 PM3 votes

Wow I can't believe splitting the morellos liandries core into several overpriced items and calling it a AP item "rework" doesn't change the fact that it was just a straight up nerf.

And don't kid yourself, Riot never admits their reworks failed. At least not in any timely manner. If you notice, a ton of the general gameplay changes they implemented this and last patch were just reverts of changes they made years ago. This is how they operate.

Shablagoo6/1/2018, 1:22:14 AM3 votes

The fact that you admit that the majority of mages build the same item proves that mages want the same thing. They are not as unique as ad is when it comes to stats. item 3030 was barely built before anyway, item 3003 was built by everyone because it offered so much. Unless they rework mages to be more unique there will be no solution, why would mage build a multitude of items when one item has everything they want. Mana changes made sense too, because now mages have to think when they cast there spells.

Its like this why would anyone build item 3907 , when item 3089 exists. Why would anyone build item 3030 , when item 3003 is better anyway with the shield and tons of mana along with item 3285 which has a nice passive and more ap. It isnt like those two are bad items, spell binder is cheap, the movespeed is nice and the active takes some time but its a good active. Also hex isnt even that bad its only 10 less ap and the active is great for kitting. But its like why would I when those other items are so much better. Mages dont need more items because like every other class your all going to end up building the same overpowered item for the time. So what does it matter?

ParanoidNoc6/1/2018, 1:55:13 AM3 votes

I never play Mages so this is my very uninformed opinion but I think that: The Problem with Mage items is that you have 2 stats to think about, mana and AP. CDR is so easy to find on every item in this game that you should never give it a second thought and your pen options are boots and 1 mid tier item.
ADC's have to pick between AS AD Crit Lethality. Tanks pick Health Armor MR and their items have a bunch of very different passives.

Mage items are stat sticks where after 10 minutes only 1 stat matters.

Theorex6/1/2018, 6:20:01 AM3 votes

I can do a whole thing on AP itemization. But it will remain the same as always. Riot doesn't know what to do with AP items because of the three following classes.

Early game AP bullies (Generally Assassins), Late game hyper carries, and finally AP Tanks. They all tap into the same damage threshold of AP.

GrReaper966/1/2018, 8:40:46 AM3 votes

They just need item 3030 to have health again tbh cause right now its like a weaker version of item 3285

Hyquiem6/1/2018, 4:06:32 AM2 votes

Well since “ALL” mages have been meta, they thought getting them would be right but they forget every time one of these mages shows up in pro play they are gunned down by the whole U.S aresenal

HaIlMonitor6/1/2018, 5:24:17 AM2 votes

Is first item the problem though? A lot of groups of champions have that same "issue" but then 2-5 after they pick items based on the game.

Tahminatrix 6/1/2018, 1:48:16 AM2 votes

I actually like to build item 3285 along with item 3040 because it turns all the extra mana you get from luden`s into ap, even with the lack of cdr stacking from both items you can get alot of ap from having them together with transcendence.

I went a full ap vel koz game and managed to get 1300 ap without any infernal dragons...

As for stacking tear, just buy it early and rush some cdr instead of magic pen, although it depends on the champions since vel koz is one of those mages who doesn't rely on magic pen so I guess it doesn't hurt his early game as hard.