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What I don't understand is why do so many keystones add damage when they could be tuned for utility

abdul569·7/25/2018, 7:06:27 PM·280 votes·23,218 views

Why does Predator have to deal damage at the end when it could add a 70% slow instead? (Edit: numbers can be changed but this is the general idea)

Why does aftershock have to deal damage at the end when it could add maybe a brittle passive instead?

Why add bonus ad on conquerer when these champions could enjoy a movement speed boost instead (juggernauts, their intended class, would love a way to catch up without a dash)?

Why not increase the healing on grasp and remove the damage on this keystone? Give that unkillable vibe people want instead of this damage meta.

Why should aery be a poking tool when it could be used like a soraka passive/approach velocity (moving towards the target grants bonus ms)?

Why must everything, bar inspiration and a few resolves, be either attack speed steroid or damage boost when they could just as easily be tuned to be more utility orienteered, offering more diversity and reduce damage across the board?

Those that probably deserve their place as the as/damage runes are PtA, LT, Elec (though this should be toned down on damage), DH (though could be reworked to give a different effect), HoB, and comet.

129 Comments

Khristophoros7/25/2018, 7:36:50 PM121 votes

You actually make some really good points. I hope Riot sees this thread.

Like regardless of whether this would fix the damage problem, it would certainly make keystones more interesting if we got more utility out of them.

LegitBusinessman7/25/2018, 11:12:29 PM66 votes

HEY GUYS MEDDLER HERE

WE'RE TAKING SOME MOVEMENT SPEED OFF THE MOVEMENT SPEED RUNE SO IT CAN GIVE YOU MORE DAMAGE

WE'RE ALSO EXPERIMENTING WITH LETTING THE VISION RUNE GIVE YOU DAMAGE

Anatera7/25/2018, 10:46:18 PM31 votes

Because we have a chimp in charge of balancing.

Daddy Ants7/25/2018, 11:08:05 PM23 votes

Aery shouldn't do damage at all in my opinion.

It should be a shielding keystone only, appeals to supportive champions.

It should still apply it's shielding the way it does now, by applying beneficial effects to allies but the damage component should go.

Aery + Scorch is an extremely oppressive and unfun to play against rune combination.

Daddy Ants7/25/2018, 11:21:47 PM21 votes

Looking at the Rune pages there's a few runes I feel don't belong on the page they are currently on.

Presence of Mind

The Precision page description is "Improved attacks and Sustained damage".

A rune giving mana back on takedown and partial ultimate cooldown refund feels out of place to me.

If you look at the description of Sorcery it's "Empowered abilities and Resource manipulation". I honestly feel like Presence of Mind would be better in the Sorcery Tree

Precision is a rune page based around auto attacking and sustained damage.

This rune does nothing for that whatsoever.

Nullifying Orb

"Empowered abilities and Resource manipulation".

A rune set that is meant to empower abilities and manipulate resources has a mini hexdrinker in it?

Seems more like a Resolve suitable rune to me.

  • Defensive runes should be in Resolve
  • Precision and Domination should be damage focused.
  • Sorcery should be a mix of damage and utility.
  • Inspiration should be pure utility.

This is my OPINION. You don't have to agree with me. I am just stating my personal opinion.

Bouncemaster Zac7/26/2018, 6:21:44 AM14 votes

They won't listen. Look at this most recent patch. "Ghost Poro and Zombie ward aren't being picked even though vision is super useful... Oh I know! Let's give we WARDING Runes FREE DAMAGE!"

Recon12127/25/2018, 11:01:53 PM13 votes

I really like the Aftershock and Aery ideas in particular.

Brittle is an effect we only see on Ornn and it would be really cool to see it elsewhere in the game. Also I feel that makes a lot of sense for the rune itself. Once you CC someone and stay close enough, you can AA to CC again for a little bit longer.

And with Aery, it seems like a Rune that in essence shouldn't be damage, and I like the niche your idea gives. Hit someone with a move and get to run at them faster. It creates a lot of play patterns that would change the way people play. Instead of just throwing out a move (fiddle silence) and getting the free damage, you would have to either capitalize on hitting a move, or wait for the CD to use it when you want.

Overall great Ideas, I'd love to see Riot head this direction.

Breezey Boy7/25/2018, 11:15:57 PM9 votes

I agree with everything you just said except the Aery change, that rune is fine.

Herlgar7/26/2018, 12:13:25 AM9 votes

I've been thinking this forever. I thought Predator could have a grounded effect to help gank slippery boys

Hyquiem7/25/2018, 11:32:48 PM7 votes

Ye basically stats > dmg.

iamsmurfing01017/26/2018, 12:39:08 AM7 votes

Well put , i wish you are in balance team i would even buy you a beer.

SanKakU7/26/2018, 1:09:51 AM3 votes

TBH most of the non-damage keystones are just trolling runes IMO.

Keshaun7/26/2018, 7:37:31 AM3 votes

I actually agree with your point. Keystones should help your champion suceed, but it should come down to your general understanding and mechanics in game rather than your Runes. If they provided more utility, laning against say Grasp wouldn't feel so punishing because you're not only taking damage every short trade, but your opponent is benefiting from taking these short trades and punishing you in the long run.

Dingding1237/26/2018, 5:03:31 PM3 votes

While we're at it why don't we replace some damage in keystones with resistances for once?

Why can't Conqueror grant 20% damage reduction instead of 20% bonus true damage? Why can't Sudden Impact grant armor/MR instead of lethality/mpen? Why can't the Inspiration tree give flat armor/MR instead of more stats that the other tree gives?

Raoul7/27/2018, 6:42:18 AM2 votes

BEcause RIOT is out of ideas ever since the early seasons. The only way they "fix" stuff is by adding damage to it. Look at tanks. All of the deal way too much damage, because thats the only way RIOT knows how to make them relevant.

And of course the community who does not wnat to waste too much time thinking about how to play. They want every game and every Champion to feel the same to play against. Any Champion that came out with any unique way of playing and therefore had a unique way to be counterplayed was nerfed because the LoL community just cant deal with something like that.

NocaNoha7/26/2018, 9:01:32 AM2 votes

I always thought how ridiculous it is that we can only get bonus ap/ad/as/hp from the rune combinations.. why not sometimes movement speed? Maybe bit of armor/mr?

Also, great suggestion for the removal of damage!

GankLord7/26/2018, 3:27:37 PM2 votes

Because they're trying to overcompensate for a Rune system that would have been entirely fine had they not reworked it and just made all runes free to begin with imo.

Janakin7/26/2018, 10:58:05 AM2 votes

Because that's the way League of Damage works now. Every problem is being solved by tuning damage.

Gramps697/26/2018, 6:07:27 PM2 votes

Better idea: remove keystones and let champions kits decide the outcome of games instead of one of maybe two keystones they can viably choose defining their build/ability usage, etc.

Kadexe7/27/2018, 2:21:31 AM2 votes

A long time ago, Blue smite didn't "steal" movement speed, it only slowed enemies - by a larger amount than it does now. It was OP because many champions used it to make their skillshots impossible to dodge without Flashing. That is the danger of creating runes that give champions more CC than they were designed to have. It's the reason Glacial Augment has been underpowered since release but won't be buffed more.

Runes giving movement speed present their own problems. First, they contribute to mobility creep - the arms race between ranged champions who want to kite and poke forever, and melee champions who want to gapclose. MS is an extremely generalist stat, Celerity for example was one of the most commonly used runes in the game at one time because it gave a sizable amount of MS and there wasn't a champion in the game that it didn't appeal to.

Jerry SeinfeId7/26/2018, 1:09:58 PM1 votes

sure take aery away from DoT champs and AP dps champs. I'll get to proc electrocute with just my teemo/singed poison instead then right? or is my playstyle not welcome?

The runes have issues, but just removing damage from half of them is gonna fuck over a bunch of champs who like them for that reason. I wish we could just get the old masteries back (with keystones) and just remove runes.

imo the problem with runes is that every rune is a keystone rune.