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Akali Shroud Change Suggestion

Belisarius09·2/4/2015, 9:17:09 PM·2 votes·1,732 views

Shoutout

@Riot @Statikk @Morello

Foreword

Riot's balance team doesn't gain anything from rage induced threads, whining, or complaining. Constructive criticism, points/counter-points, and idea pitching however can be mutually beneficial to both Riot and the community.

Today, I have an idea to pitch to you Riot, with points in support of my idea, and counter-points as to why it might not be favorable to the status quo. For your consideration...

Context

Akali is a champion facing numerous problems that simple number tweaking can never fix. Riot has bluntly said Akali lacks counter play. She's been described as boom or bust, feast or famine. Additionally she's been described as binary. My idea cannot fix all of her problems, but I believe it could help remedy her lack of counter play, and her binary nature.

The problem at hand

Akali's shroud is a very binary skill. Lack of Pink Ward or Oracles lens and its a powerful ability, whereas the presence of pinks and oracles renders it nearly obsolete. Shroud's main function is to grant Akali stealth (vision, ms buff, and slow are all secondary perks). Stealth is an ability which renders a champion invisible. The effect this has on the game is far more reaching than simply rendering a champion invisible to the opponents eye. Stealth is used as a means of surprise, or ambushing, as well as escape. Rengar, Eve, Twitch etc. can all use their stealth to surprise their opponents, maneuver into a flanking position, and make plays. Additionally they can use stealth to aid in escape, Talon comes to mind here.

Akali's shroud doesn't satisfy any of these conditions. Granted she's invisible provided there are no pinks, oracles, or lee sins present, but thats it. Shroud as it stands has none of the other qualities of "stealth."

  1. Akali's shroud doesn't surprise anyone, they can see her before she uses shroud and they can see the shroud itself. Arguably Akali's only surprise capability was the long range of her ult (which you nerfed) which she could use to dash from over a wall or from an unwarded bush.
  2. No opponent is unaware of Akali's location, they know she's inside that small circle of smoke.
  3. Unlike other assassin's who can jump in, assassinate, and then jump out with an escape, Akali can't. The stealth on shroud doesn't aid Akali in escape. (You could argue the slow could help her escape, but needless to say thats a by product of the slow, not the stealth itself.) Shroud buys time, it isn't an escape mechanism.

My Proposal

Change Akali's W, her shroud. So she no longer has stealth or invisibility. Instead, shroud make's Akali un-targetable, and she remains visible to her opponent. Same mechanics exist for when Akali breaks stealth in the current shroud, she will become targetable.

Points in Favor of Change

This will accomplish two key goals.
First, shroud won't be so binary. It won't be so strong if the opponent lacks vision items, while at the same time, it won't be so weak if they do possess said items. It's strength will be consistent, and the numbers can be tweaked as needed (duration/energy cost etc.) to achieve balance.

Secondly, non-item based counter play will be available. Both Akali and her opponent will be involved in a battle of timing and wits, trying to predict when she will break from her protection to attack. I think an accurate comparison would be a swordsman, fighting from behind a shield. He can hide behind his shield for protection, but he has to lower his defense in order to swing.

Counter-points

  1. Removing the stealth of Akali's shroud changes her identity. She no longer feels like a ninja who relies on stealth. She has no surprise factor.

  2. Becoming un-targetable is defensive, and doesn't fit the assassin class.

  3. Being un-targetable for 8 seconds is too long. This would be too similar to Zhonya's, or Poppy's ultimate.

Rebuttle

  1. Yes, while this would result in the loss of stealth, it wouldn't mean Akali is longer a ninja. Zed, Shen, and Kennen are all ninjas, and none of them have a stealth mechanic. So stealth is hardly a pre-requisite for a ninja. While kennel and shen might not be assassins, Zed, certainly is, and he doesn't need stealth to be an assassin.

  2. We already have applied this ability to assassins in the past. Fizz is un-targetable on his troll poll.

  3. As I pointed out earlier, the numbers could be tweaked here. The duration, or the energy cost, or the casting range etc. The underlying problem is the skill is binary. First you fix the underlying problem, then you can tweak the numbers to balance the ability.

Conclusion

I realize this would be a radical change. I'm not claiming it will solve all of Akali's problems. I'm not claiming it's a perfect idea. This is just an idea, food for thought, that could potentially solve some of the problems leaving Akali in her "broken" state.

Feel free to discuss. Maybe you've thought of some implications I missed.

9 Comments

LilxPaprika2/4/2015, 11:51:10 PM2 votes

we just removed the 50 armor 50 mr for a reason. she used to be able to tank way too much damage. what your suggesting is like having an 8 sexond zhonias. which you can go in and out of when you deem fit. your forward gave me hope that your suggestion was well thpught out. oh well

Elise repel is sort of like it and it has a 30 sec cooldown. what your suggesting is more like an ultimate

i mean i get where you comming from its a cool concept. i like the swordman's analogy. its just not relevant to the sort of spells fitting this game without it being an ultimate. but having that strong an initition into 5 man team and cocoon yourself is akin to poppy ult etc.

then again i guess you could sort of say the same of jax counter strike. but even then it wont last 8secs.

you know i think it would work if you kept the stealth and brought back the armor/mr shroud of old. but make it so if she appears out of it even while standing in it that her resistance buff get removed. and maybe have it so if she's revealed (not of her own doing) by ward oracles leesin/karma... that she get no resistances, sorta caught with your pants down. but then when revealed shed be alerted like eve gets... and she'd get the movement speed buff we currently have in place. so it'd be a mix ofnthe old and the new.

that'd might be sort of hard to code however. and would be a bit to complicated for everyone to learn. although i find on paper its a bit complicated but play a few games against akali and youll get it.

Monotachi2/5/2015, 1:26:33 AM2 votes

Anymore power you put into shroud, and that would mean Akali's Q and R will have to be weaker. For some Akali players, they enjoy her high offensive abilities, which means less power on her defensive tools.

If you wanted to play a slippery ninja, there's Zed.

Resistances on shroud will never come back. The change to shroud was a good step in the right direction. It requires more thought and skill to make full use of it.

Sayath2/9/2015, 11:03:55 AM2 votes

Definitely, Akali's stealth fits into a different category than any of the other champions. However, addressing that problem requires a full rework of the stealth system as a whole. All of the stealth characters suffer from the flatness of the existing system. Akali just suffers the most.

Certainly, this is no ideal situation. Yet, you need to realize this is also the reason why Akali has access to spellvamp. Twilight Shroud provides protection in the early game. Spellvamp provides protection in the late game.

The major flaw of invulnerability is that the opponent cannot interact with you in any way, canceling all projectiles in flight. The frustration of the enemy is two-fold: "I cannot cast spells on you. When I cast a spell, the spell goes on cooldown, but the effect is prevented."

A mechanic that repeatedly exercises that pattern is beyond bad design. Hence, the gameplay of entering and exiting would surely be removed. Thus, we'd end up with an entirely new spell.

Honestly, we should steer clear of such ideas. In terms of counterplay and depth, Akali will gain little from this change. CertainlyT and I learned that the hard way.

Instead, we should focus our attention to skills that are a) easier to rework and b) give a significantly higher reward when done right. Currently, that's definitely Crescent Slash. With its detonation removed, it feels pretty useless. Giving it a new purpose and play pattern that is unreliable and rewarding if achieved should be the goal of our efforts.

Clint Orris2/4/2015, 9:52:05 PM1 votes

I think that might be a little too strong. Why not make it that she's not able to be targeted by homing skills but can still be damaged by AOE spells or skill shots so that there are some counterplays you know?

Belisarius092/5/2015, 3:43:46 AM1 votes

I don't want the resistances to come back. I greatly prefer the current shroud over the old shroud. However the changes to shroud still haven't addressed the binary nature of Akali. Pink wards still wreck her. Lack of pink wards, and if she's higher in stats she can wreck the other person. I'll admit, my OP suggestion might be strong, but I never claimed it would be perfect. It's just an idea I came up with in class. I never expected it to be taken 100% as is. My goal is to get the discussion started, on how we can rework Akali so that she won't be so broken. Add counter play, so that she does;t have to be nerfed into the ground.

Alternatively, putting the shroud aside, lets consider crescent slash.

Akali is clunky as is, especially with E no longer proving Q. Now, I've played Akali since S2, and I'm very aware that she didn't always have that utility on E. As E stands right now though, its fairly useless. Compared to Kat's or Zed's ale circular attacks Akali's E is very underwhelming. Kat's can proc her marks. Zed's he can do while moving. Lee Sin can slide forwards whilst doing his. Akali's doesn't proc mark, and she also roots herself in place while performing the animation.

I don't think E was too strong prior to patch 5.2. However, if Riot is set on not reverting, then here's an alternative idea. Turn E into a skillshot. I have in mind a cone, similar to Darius's pull. As a tradeoff for adding a skillshot to Akali's kit, resulting in greater mechanical difficulty, her E could once again proc Q.

Belisarius092/4/2015, 10:59:26 PM1 votes

Thats not a bad idea.

Belisarius092/4/2015, 11:34:11 PM1 votes

Back on the old forums, there was a really good thread going with Sayath, and we even had Statikk come in and join in on the conversation. Hopefully we can get something similar going.