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Improving the role of Supports: suggestion - say goodbye to sightstone

Adormas··15 votes·1,251 views

Before I explain my suggestion, I'll quickly add that support has been my preferred role since season 2-ish. I've been playing league since launch.

So I realize most players think of warding as one of the core duties of the support role.

But what if it was not?

What if warding was EVERYONE'S duty (as it should be).

Why cant supports do what they are supposed to - support using their skills?

Lets remove signtstone. Lets increase the warding limit to 4/champ, as well as have the warding trinket give out 3 wards (numbers can be balanced by Riot, I'm sure)

This will achieve THREE things:

  1. Free up an item slot that can be used to buff the support players play-style / skill set. Supports can then spend that crucial early gold on an item that buffs their supporting skills.
  2. Get rid of a reason many supports get toxic comments like "lol noob support no ward / warding item". This is a big thing. I've read so many comments where supports get flak for not rushing sightstone. Which other role (other than jungle, but thats for their own good) is forced to build one item irrespective of the champ?
  3. Remove the warding blame. Warding becomes everyone's responsibility, since everyone has the same number of wards at their disposal.

Potential problems: Now the team really has to decide how may sweepers they want versus how many warding trinkets. Supports will probably be forced into buying warding trinkets. Overall wards on the map may go down on average, and ganks become more frequent (junglers become more powerful...oops).

But it opens up a whole item slot for supports which is such as awesome thought. I'm not saying this will solve all support issues, but it could be a solid start.

/discuss

32 Comments

DrugsForRobots5 votes

I agree that SS shouldn't exist. Yet we still need powerful forms of vision and ways of getting information. The ward from yellow trinket has a shorter duration that your SS wards, so just giving out more yellow trinket wards won't make vision more exciting or interesting. We need more variety in how vision is expressed - AoE cones of sight, narrow but far reaching lines of sight, etc. If we had different types of wards that had different fields of sight, preferably with blind spots or unique weaknesses the enemy can exploit, then those wards could afford to be more powerful and cheaper at the same time.

ZephyrDrake4 votes

sorry but what? all this will accomplish is everyone having terrible vision, people will play passive as all hell due to not having enough vision and people will still be blaming the support regardless since they are still the main ones who play the vision game. It doesn't matter if an item slot is freed because vision is that important and critical to the game and yellow trinkets are just absolute garbage and won't be enough even if your entire team has a yellow trinket instead of the red one

Adormas7 votes

{quoted}

sorry but what? all this will accomplish is everyone having terrible vision, people will play passive as all hell due to not having enough vision and people will still be blaming the support regardless since they are still the main ones who play the vision game. It doesn't matter if an item slot is freed because vision is that important and critical to the game and yellow trinkets are just absolute garbage and won't be enough even if your entire team has a yellow trinket instead of the red one

I understand your concern, but there shouldnt be a rule about who "plays the vision game". These random rules are player made. We can change them. My suggestion is not to remove wards completely. In fact I'm saying there should be more wards available per player. Only as people get used to the changes there may be a slight lower number of wards on the map. It should even out eventually.

ZephyrDrake1 votes

{quoted}

I understand your concern, but there shouldnt be a rule about who "plays the vision game". These random rules are player made. We can change them. My suggestion is not to remove wards completely. In fact I'm saying there should be more wards available per player. Only as people get used to the changes there may be a slight lower number of wards on the map. It should even out eventually.

change for the sake of change is stupid change!

yellow trinkets are terrible and people buying wards? they barely even use their FREE wards and you want people to buy them? sorry but what? supports play the vision game because they have no need to farm, they are able to roam and harass and assist everyone. You aren't going to do anything but make supports be like they were all the way back in season 2 in which they are just 2~3 items and then a pile of wards stacked on each other. Getting rid of sightstone isn't going to do anything but hurt supports. If anything sightstone should be a trinket that only those who have gold items can get. That is literally the only way that it won't hurt supports as much... and even then it'll still hurt them since they cannot do vision denial through the red trinket

Adormas4 votes

{quoted}

change for the sake of change is stupid change!

Except its not. I've given an explanation, read it.

yellow trinkets are terrible and people buying wards? they barely even use their FREE wards and you want people to buy them?

I don't want them to buy wards...it'll be in their trinket. And not using trinkets is a beginner problem. People eventually learn to start using trinks.

sorry but what?

I haven't typed rocket science here.

supports play the vision game because they have no need to farm, they are able to roam and harass and assist everyone.

The reason they don't have a need for farm is because they have been forced into that meta. Its not an inherent aspect or something.

You aren't going to do anything but make supports be like they were all the way back in season 2 in which they are just 2~3 items and then a pile of wards stacked on each other. Getting rid of sightstone isn't going to do anything but hurt supports.

So you want sightstone to exist so supports can have something to do....? Do you see a problem in that statement?

If anything sightstone should be a trinket that only those who have gold items can get.

So you want to turn sightstone into a trinket, which would mean removing it from your inventory slot. Why are we arguing here?

That is literally the only way that it won't hurt supports as much... and even then it'll still hurt them since they cannot do vision denial through the red trinket

This is your only point I agree with. But its soooooo dull hitting those wards 3x. Its just a chore and its the only aspect of supporting I dislike.

DemoGuide3 votes

I always upvote removal of sightstone.

Tew Liter1 votes

You see I think kinda the opposite. I think they should make 2 or 3 items that build out of sight stone. Sort of like the support items but on a stronger scale.

Adormas3 votes

This, I like. But the warding element should cost very less.

Why not have non-activatable items have an option to get the sightstone active as an addition: example: rabadons +400g = rabadons with ward placing active.

Automated Riven1 votes

why dont they just remove sightstone. change the trinket to only two options. Red sightstone which places control wards. and blue sightstones which place blue wards. you can have them scale up as the game goes on so it doesnt break laning phase. so level 1 each back you get 2 wards which last 100 seconds and level 18 you can have all 4 wards with 180 second duration. and after level 11 or even an arbitrary time limit. or after first tower goes down, whatever. The red trinket/sightstone becomes available and it can hold 1 control ward which works as a usual control. Would probably never be swapped out till people are full build. and you can even have it at level 18 it can hold 2 control wards so that teams can actually sweep for wards by placing multiple windows of true sight. which would fit right in with riots windowed sight ideas.

Xilixer1 votes

the only big problem with this is the amount of vision. it was a problem back in season 5 i think? where majority of the map was just covered in wards.

Automated Riven1 votes

it was farther back then season 5. I think one of the supports in the world series from season 3 ended the game with only boots and a gold gen item and placed something stupid like 250 wards.

Shuyin1781 votes

Personally I don't agree with this, mainly because Sightstone helps the team more than some people realize. By removing Sightstone that would also prevent supports from buying the red sweeper (which we use to clear out vision for advantages) that a number of others don't buy because honestly only the jungler would have any reason to get it. My Sightstones have saved even the most Crayola of crayon eaters in the past because of the vision I gave them.

Saianna1 votes

My last 30 games on SR (no matter what mode).

On average only 3 teammates, me included, used wards. Rest was "I HAS TO HAVE THAT KILL!!!11"

I doubt they even knew how to use them. But it's cool, I just lost about 18 of them.. or 20. So.. 20x30 (avg game lenght) = Only 600 minutes of my life gone to shithole. Fair.

My salty rant aside. i have even better idea:

You have to, I repeat HAVE TO use a ward every 2-3-4 minutes, or you receive a debuff with -50% AS/AD/AP/HP/MANA/CRIT/IQ Which will NOT go away untill you place a goddamn ward. Also it stays for about 3-5 seconds after you used a ward.

With this you either will use a ward, or players will report you for trolling untill Riot bans your account = less bads in this game.

My silly idea aside

Your idea won't work. People simply DON'T WANT to use wards. You could even do something like this "Using a ward gives you MS boost for 5s" or "placing a ward rewards you 10g" or "every ward placed one yasuo main dies" and those idiots still wouldn't use it.

On the second note, increasing cap of ward holding will only strain support more. Now they'll be forced to: a) place all wards, cause ADC are those saint cows incapable of doing anything other than pressing right click b) ADCs will order supports to buy sightstone on top of it. (I know you'd want it removed, but Riot is known for doing 180 degrees differently than players want, So i know they will not touch it at all).

The Yetii Rider1 votes

"Which other role (other than jungle, but thats for their own good) is forced to build one item irrespective of the champ?"

Every role.

item 1001

Stephenizgod5 votes

Cassiopeia : "BAHAHAHAHAH FOOLS!"

Nakoruru1 votes

Nami : Give me back my hat!

The Last Ballad2 votes

If you want to forgo boots for another damage item, no one will yell at you. But heaven forbid a Support Zyra(who can temp-ward with her w) delay a sightstone in favor of the second gold generation item in order to put the hurt on the enemy, as she should be doing!

Stephenizgod1 votes

No i don't think this will solve the issue, this will only hurt everybody. See its like 90% up to the Support to ward, remove their sightstone and slighty improve their trinkets and it will still be like 90% up to the Support... only now they have less wards.

Instead they should rework Sighstone into different items, similar to the Spellthief, Coin, and Relics. The sighstone+starter item ones are a good idea for saving a space, but they sort of limit the Support. They need to be expanded on so they are full blown items that a Support wants to buy instead of being forced to buy.

TheHappyReaperz2 votes

Its up to everyone to ward. By 5 minutes in, everyone on either team should have 2 wards to put down, as few people start with sweeper.

Stephenizgod1 votes

Yes i understand that but that is not how it works in game. When I support I see 4 Wards on the entire map at any given point and at least 3 of them are mine. We don't get any more vision until the ADC gets blue trinket, that is just how it goes at lower ELOs. They believe it is the Supports job to ward, they don't understand that it is a team effort.

So what I said was referring to that.

TheHappyReaperz1 votes

So wouldn't it be a good thing for people to have to put down wards, instead of going, "It's the support's job"?

Stephenizgod1 votes

You are seriously misunderstanding... People are not going to put down wards... If there is no Sightstone, there will just be no Vision. People don't learn, they can place 3 Wards and a Control Ward and yet I, as the Support, am the one putting down all of our Wards. Yes, people should be warding, but they don't. So removing the Sightstone will only make it worse for everyone and instead of thinking "well hey maybe I should have to put down wards" they will think "stupid rito, making this game dumb every patch".

TheHappyReaperz1 votes

So forcing people to realize they have to ward is not a good thing? If you remove SS, it will force people to put down wards. There will be a transition period, certainly, but it will overall improve the health of the game.

Stephenizgod1 votes

If giving people free wards on a charge system didn't make them Ward any more, how would removing Sightstone?

This is the League community they will just bitch about no vision instead of just warding more.

That is my point.

No shit removing SS would improve the spread the duty of vision in theory, but in practice it would just make Vision worse.

woodvsmurph1 votes

Remove sightstone so that no one champ/role can be expected to buy an item to help with warding (other than control/pink ward which everyone can buy). Interesting idea. I think it would have a better chance at working than other ideas that have been tried to get EVERYONE to ward. Seriously, I main top and jungle now instead of support like I used to, and I still find in half my games I'm the only person using a ward after the 5 minute mark. Like adormas suggested, you would have to buff the trinket items accordingly so yellow could always have 2 wards out, blue could always have 1 ward available, red clearing trinkets could work like control ward and activate upon being spotted by enemy ward and deactivate that ward (like control ward combo'd with old raptor buff). It could work and would be a great way to get some lazy people to consider actually using their trinkets after the 5 minute mark.

Dehitay1 votes

Riot isn't going to making warding with trinkets easier. They've been steadily making warding more and more difficult over the last few seasons. And even if they did, all this change does is give people an excuse not to build sightstone. Increasing trinket ward charges wouldn't really be that different from the system in place now.

IcyPepper1 votes

Now the team really has to decide how may sweepers they want versus how many warding trinkets. Supports will probably be forced into buying warding trinkets.

Supports and junglers would probably take the sweepers, while the ADC will take the scouting option (blue trinket currently) and the midlaner and top laner will likely take the warding trinket. Jungler can supplement this with tracker's knife for more wards, and supports can spend some gold on control wards throughout the entire game.

Ya know, strategy instead of "everyone gets trinkets, support gets sightstone, okay we're done thinking now."

I can certainly live with something like your OP :V

SSrikeShadow1 votes

How about we make it a 4v4 game and simply axe the support role altogether. That solution would solve a huge number of problems. Plus it would incidentally reduce lag.

FioraWillCarry1 votes

{quoted}

How about we make it a 4v4 game and simply axe the support role altogether. That solution would solve a huge number of problems. Plus it would incidentally reduce lag.

The support role wasn't invented by Riot. It was invented by players. Riot only nurtured it.

Final Spark Lux1 votes

Sounds absolutely awful. I like having the ability to ward. Nevermind helping my team, it helps me. People already complain there's not enough wards on the map, and this would just make it worse. And you can forget about ever having vision on any objectives, since all your lanes have no charges and sightstone is no longer a thing.

bad arcade kitty1 votes

support role is actually pretty fine currently

they should give some small trinkets to encourage it more (icons or something) and people will eventually get used that they can be filled as a support from time to time

bad arcade kitty1 votes

also as for the sight stone, surely you can go without it and put wards from your warding totem or w/e it's named but it means you can't counter ward, or you can pick a counter ward trinket and then you will have to buy wards with money because to ward is everybody's job and yours too

hence why sight stone is a very good item

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