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PBE Rengar W nerf and his future as an assassin

Knifecat Reborn·1/31/2017, 11:18:47 PM·1 votes·1,842 views

Why do you plan to removed his cc immunity and change it to remove any current cc on him if Rengar's current empowered W doesn't actually remove some until after most cc animations are finished? Ex: Vi's ultimate on Rengar - You can cast your empowered w before she reaches you, but if you cast it when she's on top of you and knocking you up, you aren't able to do anything until after the animation is over even though you casted w when she reached you or knocked you up. I've noticed this affect with his W against a handful of champs (sorry, Vi is the only one to come to mind atm). Also as far as late game, his W will be somewhat irrelevant (as an assassin) because everyone else will just chain cc him instead of doing everything at once.

So are you telling us that you're removing assassin Rengar and promoting bruiser Rengar without saying it directly because you're not entirely sure what to do with him atm? Are you just trying things out for now until you find something that works? Because this nerf would seriously destroy him. He might or can be an assassin early-mid game, but late game it will be almost pointless and Rengar players will have to tank up, becoming a bruiser since the nerf is so inefficient for him late game. I'm not saying I don't see the problem with him always getting away because of his current state, I'm just saying this isn't a good path for him to be on with this kind of nerf. I just don't think this specific nerf is what should be done to adjust (nerf) his empowered W, but I also am not sure what should be done exactly either, he's in a tough spot.

Of course Rengar still has his damage which most people don't like (even though that's just what an assassin is, to be dealing massive damage in a short time to delete someone then use an escape ability to get out), there's still a problem with him being able to get away with this nerf if you can't use anything until you actually have cc on you, but by that time, it's pretty easy to stick to someone like that by just chain ccing them. "Ya, but you can still flash out", an assassin's escape ability shouldn't be useless and make you have to rely on flash constantly, you shouldn't have to wait 4+ minutes just to fight or kill someone again (in a team fight).

[Suggestion]: If you want to make up for him being less of an assassin as time goes on (over time there's been a lot of nerfs, and his rework was supposed to be a big nerf to significantly increase in the time it takes to "delete" someone, but there's still more nerfs to come obviously, if we find a way to become an explosive assassin once again) and stick with these PBE changes that you have, maybe bring back out the ap assassin Rengar and buff his base damage or ap ratios on his W? AP Rengar still works if you play it right, but it's not as good as it used to be (regarding the damage aspect, not so much the heal off ap, even though that was plus).

9 Comments

Trap or a Trick1/31/2017, 11:25:58 PM2 votes

we are both biased, you main rengar (I think, going by ur name here, sorry if I'm wrong) and I main adc, and I think this change was more than needed, if I'm varus, and you jump me, I flash and ult you, you shouldn't be able to break it and run away from my team and almost kill me. once again, I'm biased but, I think its kinda dumb that he has it in the first place :/

Calabok2/1/2017, 2:33:31 AM2 votes

no.

nerf that kitty!

Kaioko1/31/2017, 11:27:09 PM1 votes

I have a lot of issues with your post but let's start at the beginning. Vi's ultimate is a displacement ability while Rengar's E, cleanse, mercurial scimitar, etc... remove crowd control which do not exclude displacement ability. Rengar's W removes CC; you're supposed to cast it while stun or rooted and essentially get an out of jail free card.

Now getting out of CC is fine the issue is becoming immune to CC for a bit which actually promotes bruiser rengar vs. assassin rengar. Rengar honestly shouldn't be using his empowered W; most of his empowered ability should be used on his Q to deal more damage like a proper assassin would. Empowered W should only be used as a "fuck I messed up get me out of here" card not a "I'm now immune to CC let me kill you."

The choice for Rengar should be simple with his empowered ability --

  1. You're doing well and want to assassinate then use empowered Q
  2. The enemy is too tanky and you need help from your team or do more damage over time then use empowered E
  3. You fucked up and walked straight into a CC use empowered W and run the fuck away

CC is supposed to counter assassin that's the only real way to prevent them from bursting a target. When you give an assassin the ability an Olaf has on his ultimate; it's just not healthy.

Redesignated2/1/2017, 1:25:39 AM1 votes

re:Vi ult: This is a bog-standard interaction between Cleanse and knock-ups, it's the same with Yasuo Q, Janna Q, Nami R, etc. This is far from unique to Rengar's Cleanse. When you Cleanse the effect you can actually Flash out of the animation, though, if I remember the interaction right.

Cleanse is already something no other assassin has access to on a skill, and it's to compensate for his lack of escapes once he's in; however, having it also be outright disable immunity was asinine, and let him completely fuck people over under their turrets incredibly safely, easily, and reliably. It gave him too much safety for an assassin with his level of reliable damage, chase, and utility (via his ultimate and bola), and actually removed a massive amount of counterplay — because at least if you know you're going to die, you can try to take him down with you by stunning him under your turret, right?

His design is still a huge problem. The update didn't really fix any of the issues old Rengar had, it just swapped them out for new ones here and there while maintaining the instant-kill-and-instant-out threat. Everybody knew it when they saw him hit testing that it was just going to be more of the same old.