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Is Ivern really unlliked or has he just been an awful weak champion

Worst JG Wins·11/30/2019, 7:49:35 PM·20 votes·12,715 views

There was a popular Youtube video recently released that made the argument Ivern is the least liked champion in League of Legends. This opinion shocked me because i always thought generally well liked champion. I'm personally of the opinion that Ivern's numbers are just AWFUL. His shields suck, his damage sucks even for an enchanter it's really really really bad, he is insanely squishy, he has absurdly low auto range for a ranged champ and his itemization is actually non-existent traditional enchanters are about sustain and CDR in lane, but since Ivern is a jungler he doesn't really care about sustain or CDR for his ganks, making it so he wants damage and raw numbers during the laning phase and more traditional support items in the late game.

Personally i feel like Ivern was repeatedly gutted in S7, not because he was strong but because Ardent was broken and as soon as Ardent was put in check Ivern became unplayable and has been unplayable since.

77 Comments

Beerstein11/30/2019, 10:21:17 PM6 votes

You can basically take him, say what does he do that's great, find another champ that does pretty much the same, then take what's left on him, and what's left on the other champion and it he'll get stomped into the ground and then some in any head to head comparison of what's left in his/their kit and how well it gets the job done. THAT is the problem with Ivern.

You can say oh, great mobility into ganks. Cool, let's grab Hecarim, that's a staple of his kit. Okay they both can get in lane fast. What's left?

Iven has a snare/gap close (also skillshot that gets blocked by minions). Hecarim has fear, it's gonna land.

Ivern has a cool shield and daisy...Hecarim...does a lot more damage than both combined could impact any fight, let's be real.

Okay, so what else, Iven can clear JG fast, but he also has to do a lot of double backing, especially with ganks etc. (which he HAS to pull off as it's all he has) so that it isn't as strong as it might seem in this meta, it also costs health. Hecarim can also clear fast, healthy, and has pit control (of which Ivern has none).

You can go through every JG champ doing this and Ivern just doesn't add up. If there's any one thing that would draw a person to Ivern, it exists somewhere else that's more effective. (Unless you're going PETA on jg minons, he's got that on lockdown)

Mahoh11/30/2019, 8:30:17 PM6 votes

Ivern just needs some double ds and a booty for people to play them.

Mavëríck11/30/2019, 8:09:16 PM6 votes

Ivern is a wandering support. I'm of the mindset that most everyone just really does not understand how to play him effectively.

item 1402 >item 3117 >item 3504 >item 3174 is your core

Use your passive to duplicate every Red/Blue buff for your laners, though most laners simply don't know his passive or care to listen or look with their eyes when you ping it. Also you can set up all kinds of creative plays with your bushes that give first strike capability to your team. In the damage meta being able to his first usually wins you the fight.

Vhan876511/30/2019, 8:09:53 PM5 votes

The main problem with Ivern is that he isn't engaging enough on his own to properly learn for most people. Ivern doesn't have anything flashy to him nor can he carry on his own; add in as well that he is semi dependent on the Meta and what champions are strong, on paper there is nothing drawing people to want to play Ivern.

None of this is to say he is weak though. The people who do still play Ivern have a good winrate on him, if even can make him look busted in the right situations. Most jungle mains will point out that Ivern's strongest point is that he has no set jungle path, which makes tracking him incredibly hard. As Ivern, knowing where you should be, or want to be heading, gives you the option to just make it up as you go. To wrap this up, the final thing I want to mention is that Ivern's ult is honestly really weird for most people. Daisy has more health than a full item Mundo beating you in the face, but on her own she doesn't do anything. Being soooooo team reliant is what makes the champion seem weak, but behind the scenes he is usually the one actually setting up the play a lot of the time.

Or throwing his Q for a quick root but your ADC decides to take the travel journey and is then alone in the midst of the enemy. That, uh, also makes him seem unappealing from time to time.

Silent Reaper12/1/2019, 6:32:18 AM4 votes

My only issue with Ivern is that his W feels too...uselesss. The utility of hiding is way, WAY too niche and everyone knows people can hide in it.

I honestly think if Ivern W was reworked into something more useful he would have no trouble being useful.

Rock MD11/30/2019, 8:11:08 PM4 votes

I think this video that was posted on League reddit does a good job explaining what he means by unliked.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2q-DvU1t5I

It's like Rammus. Fun champion to meme, he's a champion that doesn't frustrate or annoy people the same way Yasuo does, he just seems like an all-around good guy and when you see a player you think, "that dude is cool."

But when it actually comes to picking the champions, they fall by the wayside due to their very unorthodox, peculiar playstyles, and inability to just grab attention the same way a champion like Thresh does.

It's not that a lot of people hate Ivern, it's that people just aren't as passionate for him.

The23rdGamer12/1/2019, 10:31:34 PM3 votes

Ivern by design is a niche champion. He combines Support and Jungle (the least and second least popular roles historically in many regions).

He's not necessarily badly designed but his gameplay concepts target the two smallest player populations in most regions so he doesn't see much popularity largely off of that from what I've been able to gather.

Tokishi712/1/2019, 4:03:42 AM3 votes

as many others have likely mentioned, the champ just gets fucked over by dragon prio these days. I like the champion when you have 5 human beings playing the game, but problem is you usually have one guy who is a one death away from inting/afk, another guy who shouldn't be in the elo, and then two three others desperately trying to hold the game together. Ivern simply isn't the tape solo q needs or wants

Shrek Luigi12/1/2019, 9:21:07 PM3 votes

champions who do less damage--in just about any context, and regardless of any positive-tradeoffs--tend to be viewed poorly by a pretty wide subset of players. but, in fairness to those players: doin damage is pretty important in this game (lol), and a lot of times those cool quirks aren't as impactful as seasons pass & the meta changes (especially in the context of jg, as changes there can often be pretty tremendous in scope). I think Ivern is just ageing prematurely because he's got such a loopy kit.

I like playing him, but there are a lot of times I'll get autofilled in jg against a team-comp that looks really gnarly, and just say to myself "nope I'll just play nocturne or voli instead haha". if the enemy jg can deny your invade & counterJG you effortlessly enough, or if their team has some serious burst-per-second-gigafed strats goin on, then he just seems too risky of a pick for me to consider playing.

and so, I think he is pretty weak......maybe. but also, maybe not.

JustA kleo11/30/2019, 7:56:23 PM3 votes

to me, playing ivern is the most boring thing i ever did in lol. you play a jungler who doesnt fight the jungle camps NOR really fights when he ganks. you have some pathetic autoattacks and your q. and mainly your shield.

the champ is just so boring and no fun to play. I MEAN YOU DO NOT FIGHT THE CAMPS! that makes it so boring.

NTrumpWeTrust12/3/2019, 9:30:12 AM2 votes

He just has an extremely small niche of players who would actually enjoy his playstyle. I personally love everything about him, but I'm a support main so that's prob why.

DerMangoJoghurt11/30/2019, 8:25:51 PM2 votes

There is quite the important choice missing from your poll. I like Ivern, enjoy playing him and don't think he is too weak.

I feel like the reason why Ivern isn't popular is that his gameplay is too fundamentally different from what we're used to. To specify, League has conditioned us to feel rewarded every time we kill or destroy something.

Kill a champion = Gold. Kill a minion = Gold. Kill a zombie ward = You guessed it, gold. Destroy the Nexus = Completely pointless, but still gold.

Killing stuff is consistently rewarded throughout the game, so our brain adapted to make us feel good when we kill stuff. And as a natural reaction to that, steps that directly lead towards killing something produce a similar feeling of accomplishment. You have to admit, it feels good to hit that skillshot and see a chunk of your enemies health bar disappear. Or to force your opponent out of lane and leave their tower plates undefended. Even whittling your opponents down over time with Janna W's, or Soraka Q's still feels good.

Ivern is missing pretty much all these things that we have been conditioned to feel good about. You don't kill anything, you don't hurt anything and even after you get out of the jungle you mostly provide utility or let a friendly golem clobber enemies to death.

Of course there is enjoyment to be found in his playstyle, but because of his unconventionality it's quite a niche appeal.

At least that is my uneducated guess for why Ivern isn't popular.

e46 Fanatic11/30/2019, 8:28:27 PM2 votes

Ivern is fine, people just don't take the time to understand him because he's kinda boring and is more of a support than anything else.

Akali is SO HOT11/30/2019, 10:22:38 PM2 votes

Ivern is more of a support jungler so most people don't really enjoy playing him. In terms of power he is typically either super weak or super overpowered depending on the meta. Currently he is actually pretty close to the middle of the pack which is surprising.

TonyTonyMordecai11/30/2019, 10:28:05 PM2 votes

The problem with playing him is that while I can explain what Ivern does (even looking up jungle path videos to understand how to be more effective on him) most people have no idea what he does and they are under the notion that the jungler does damage, since that has been the common theme for every jungler before him, as well as the across the board enchanter nerf because of season 7, but happening halfway into season 8 after the problem was already solved. I can be a good sport and explain that I'm just another support and I don't have much in terms of damage, but most of the time I get players that have no idea what he does, or what his limits are, and end up making poor decisions.

I still like the guy, I might go support jungle (if I look up jungle paths again) just to take Ivern and still go bot occasionally.

MasterDClone11/30/2019, 11:54:07 PM2 votes

Where is the I like the champion option

CaptainAntiHeroz12/1/2019, 12:53:40 AM2 votes

Ivern is freaky bruh I don't like when hes in the game in general

FakeGravity12/1/2019, 6:30:39 PM2 votes

i think there are champions for each person that they are in champ select and they just cant for a moment even consider them, not that they think "oh god im not playing yasuo" it is more like " oh yeah.. X exist, nah i dont want to play him" and for many ppl that X is ivern

YaraUwU12/1/2019, 7:48:56 PM1 votes

He was good as fuck then was dumpstered by riot because they couldn't balance the champion they created. Which is the story of most new champions in the last 3 years.

FriskeCrisps12/1/2019, 9:44:35 PM1 votes

Ivern jungle is great late game, but early on, he's extremely weak. Considering he can't attack jungle monsters, it makes him extremely easy to counter jungle early on. His passive takes way too long at the start. I believe its like 40 sec to clear out one camp? So you start your passive on all these camps on one side, then youre stuck waiting to be able to claim the camps. Youre still stuck lvl one until you can clear those.

Unlawful Salmon12/1/2019, 5:44:21 PM1 votes

As someone who has 1 tricked Ivern to high Diamond at one point I can tell you he's actually usually on the strong side, but he has such an unorthodox play style that I can't imagine too many people would decide to main him. Plus he cannot take objectives without his team. Generally he shines in turning around skirmishes and teamfights. He's very hard to play optimally, and I would assume many people wouldn't know exactly how to put the time into him to master him. His bushes are actually quite strong when used right and have many situations where they are powerful, but they may not always immediately convey that in game(you can use them to block ward vision from the enemy team, and allow your ADC or whatever to fall back into your bush in a team fight. They are great for sieging as well.)

From my personal experience the Ivern 1 tricks know how strong he is, but sometimes when the map changes he does get shafted for a while. When that happens then is he tends to lay low until map changes come out that favor him a bit more.

Karn Bishop12/1/2019, 12:55:55 AM1 votes

Ivern's kit is the definition of toxic gameplay, when he is strong there is literally nothing the opposing jungler can do to him because he will always arrive to jack your camps often before your even there yourself and even if you do manage to show up you can't stop him from taking them then running away and if you try to follow he either roots you or leaps to scuttle and your left further and further behind until eventually you just give up.

It's the entire reason he is weak despite the naysayers who say he is "fair" becausue the reality is if he was actually fair he wouldn't need to be kept so weak, how to make him fair? make it so you can challenge or clear marks on the friendly side of the jungle only so people can't bully him in his jungle but junglers still have a response to trololo i walk in smite and walk away bullcrap.

edit: its my opinion that all champions should follow the same basic rules so champions like ivern that violate it should be changed to be in line with it, other champions in this example are mini game champions like kindred, and shyv who have entire parts of their kit invalidated based on if the opponent has a functioning cranial cavity for jungling or is autofilled.