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@Riot Can Supports be traditional?

Derp Princess·3/19/2016, 3:31:33 PM·5 votes·842 views

For years now the support role has been plagued with the likes of tanks, burst mages, and even assassins. Most people don't even like playing the support role because they feel like they aren't contributing to the teams victory well. I've primarily played support since i started playing this game 2 years ago and it ultimately saddens me when I see stuff like these champions Blitzcrank Nautilus Annie Poppy out perform me in the support role as someone like Lulu Bard Janna .

I'm not here to voice my opinion >MUCH< on how under-powered someone like Support Lulu is, but I will say the fact that I can shield my adc, speed them up, ult them, peel off the enemy team with my q's and polymorph them here and there... In the team fight phase I do feel accomplished doing that. If my adc is someone like KogMaw I feel great getting items like item 3504 to boost his attack speed and damage.

I'm going to use Blitzcrank as an example here but I am referring to every character not intended to be a support taken as a support whether it be Annie, Brand, or even Nidalee. On that note, even though I've played Lulu in other lanes before, the fact i can do that is slowly being gutted so lower your pitch forks readers, I primarily play her as a support.

But I am here to say it's total and absolutely bullshit that a Blitzcrank (for example) can press Q ONCE and it mean instantdeath for any squishy character he pulls if it hits them. People often say he's one of the better "Supports" out there. That'd be true except for the fact that he isn't even a support. Blitzcrank does absolutely nothing to "support" a carry in the ways of buffs, shields, heals. All he does is peel, silence, and hook. That's his identity, and that's fine. Well, it would be fine if him doing that wasn't stronger than what I can do as someone like Lulu. But his identity outshines what I do as a support player for over 20 minutes (then team fight phase starts). Any squishy support (sans maybe Soraka) is high risk, low reward at first, then they slowly progress into high reward. That's great, that's how it should be. Blitzcrank on the other hand is always low risk, high reward through the entire game. And that's not okay. Again using my main Lulu as an example here, I can q them over and over and over to do some damage and peel/poke, then Blitzcrank lands one grab and more or less instakills along with his team whoever he grabs. Like what? Sure, fine. He can do that. Despite the fact I think that's very very stupid that this is even in the game, I'll now start talking about where I'm going with making this thread. Zyra.

Zyra is currently being debated on whether she is going to be balanced around being a mid lane mage or a bot lane support. May I just stop it there and say she does NOTHING to give buffs to people in any way, all she does is massive damage. When you think of supports in any game that isn't League: Healers, sheilders, buffers, and people who give debuffs to enemies. Zyra has one of those qualities and i don't feel in her current state she should be balanced around that. Now, with that being said if she was given a >REAL< support oriented kit then it would maybe be okay. I don't even play Zyra so I can't speak for the die hard Zyra mains, but they've mostly all been saying they want her to be a mid lane mage. And I think thematically that sounds where she should go because she's just a glorified (perhaps not the best word but...) secondary ap carry right now.

And on that note, when you all get around to working on the support class of champions, lets start making the support role feel great without having to rely on cheese tactics like using tanks or burst mages to get in the way of real supports, people meant to be supports. I know I may get downvoted because this is a mix of a rant and a suggestion but please refrain from attacking me as a person because I have an opinion.

16 Comments

Aeolian Melodies3/19/2016, 5:53:58 PM2 votes

Yes I also hate that support moved from "this champion's kit is made to protect, empower and enable teammates" to "whoever has good CC and can function on a lower income". Riot progressively let it happen in the name of "variety", now the invasion is complete and if you pick a traditional support that is not Janna or Thresh, people seem confused.

Annie should never be allowed to win as a support against Sona, Alistar, Thresh and so forth.

It needs to go both ways, if you won't allow supports to be viable outside of their intended role, then do not allow non-intended supports to dominate them (Blitzcrank Brand Fiddlesticks Karma Kennen Morgana Nautilus Nunu Shen Sion Velkoz Zilean Zyra ).

If there is only one thing they can be allowed to do, one place they can do, one job they can accomplish, let them be absolute incontested masters at it. If not, stop gutting supports who venture out of bot lane (Alistar Janna Lulu Sona Soraka TahmKench etc ).

Big Lincoln3/19/2016, 3:41:21 PM1 votes

zyra has fantastic counter-engage so she's always going to be in some form playable as a support

'support' champions are almost always the champs who can do well with limited gold income. Zyra, Blitz, the majority of tanks, etc.

that being said, I don't feel like they explicitly outperform the traditional supports; at least, not Bard. the main issue with them is that when they're good, they generally end up finding play in a solo lane and being incredibly overbearing (whether they scale ridiculously hard, have very high base damage, etc) due to the nature of their kits.

but it would be nice to see more traditional supports

CoolKnightST3/19/2016, 3:57:41 PM1 votes

Supports is more than just shielding your adc. Their strength can be messured on a lot of other ways:

  • Zoning controle:
    • by CC
    • by Damage
    • by Cooldowns
    • by Ability/Auto Attack Range
    • by Debuff
    • by Damage Taken (absorb enemy cooldowns)
  • Utility:
    • Shields
    • Heals
    • Buffs
    • Vision
    • Mobility
  • Other:
    • Ability Frequency (cost, cooldown, pool, regeneration)
    • Etc...

This is why their are so many untraditional supports that can work since they shine in some aspect a lot of traditional supports just can't contest with. Blitzcrank Q is a good example of zoning controle by CC. He keeps forcing the enemy on their position resulting them into to deep a distance from the one you are trying to protect.

To give the answer why Zyra can perform so good as a support. Not only she has the ability zone enemies by CC, Damage, Cooldowns and Range. She also provides vision with her W. This all combined just makes her really strong as a support. It's not just her burst that makes her a good support.

ElysMustache3/19/2016, 4:00:52 PM1 votes

I feel like now is a good time to be a support main.

Always get your role (~96%+) Short queue times Chances are other team support not a main, therefore skill advantage goes to you

Espy Psyche3/19/2016, 4:11:10 PM1 votes

So where do Morgana Lux fall?

Lux and Morgana have more supportive kits than the likes of Annie or Zyra because they do have abilities that directly buff allies (shields that block incoming attacks), but they're definitely high damage mages who can delete people if allowed to stack items. Morgana specifically has a wide area ultimate with a huge teamfight effect (Lux's semi-global execute lets her pick up kills from ranges that allies can't, directly increasing her team's gold income). And they're both really good at picking fights since they've got those long range skillshot snares that catch people out of position.

Ravenhale3/19/2016, 6:07:02 PM1 votes

Not all tanks are suited for the Support role. Blitz is among those that rely on "cheese" tactics to be of any value. He does have decent tools in his kit that can be used as peel, but most of the time it gets used for setting up kills. His "sustain" is a mana shield passive, which I personally feel to be inferior to Leona, Alistar or even Nautilus. In theory, he's one of those tanks that should be easily poked out of lane. Unfortunately you can bully him for the first ten minutes and it still only takes one hook for his lane to come back.

Blitz and Annie have a lot of similarities in that a secondary reason to pick them is to create a safe zone for farming CS. If your ADC is smart, they will try to avoid pushing the minion wave so that this zone never quite reaches their tower. Of course the primary reason is to establish a Kill lane, but I'm a passive player even when I run Annie. I'm not thinking about wrecking the lane pre 6. I find it rather annoying that Blitz can technically start a Kill lane at Level 1. Even Leona has to wait for Level 2.

I'm a little worried about Zyra being balanced around her Support aspect. Many Zyra mains have stated the only reason that she plays support is due to her being a very high risk, mediocre reward solo laner. They don't want her to balanced around a role she's been forced into because of her weaknesses.

I've played Zyra on a couple FTP weeks back when I was expanding my Support roster. I didn't like the unreliability of her kit. Even playing Orianna as a shield and zone bot is less trouble. The mechanics in Zyra's kit are just too much to squander in the Support role. And honestly, if I want outright poke damage, I will take Annie, Karma or Sona over a Zyra. It's just easier.