I Disagree on the direction for the changes in regards to Pro Play

Divewing·2/15/2018, 4:20:20 AM·1 votes·274 views

Obviously I'm not a pro player, but in my humble opinion, I believe that the targeted changes are a step in the right direction at best, but for the most part wrong.

Meddler's most recent post addresses 4 key issues that he/Riot(?) has/have identified as target areas.

For the sake of making sure everyone is on the same page, those 4 issues are as follows:

  1. Likely removing Tracker's Knife from the jungle items.
  2. Increasing the power of Epic monster buffs so that you really want to contest them if possible.
  3. Elder Dragon isn't changing on the first spawn.
  4. Delaying the time Stopwatch becomes available to use further, most likely to 8 minutes, from the current 6.

I'll start with 4 (Stopwatch), as it'll be the shortest. This one I actually agree with. I personally feel it's more leaning towards a symptom rather than a cause, but this seems to be a sentiment that is somewhat shared by Meddler as well.

Moving on, I'm going to cover 2 and 3 together. Elder buff is great, pretty simple, but it has another issue - one that you'd think would be covered by number 2. Elder and Baron are way too easy to take. Teams aren't contesting because the buff is too weak (well, maybe not for Elder, but certainly for Baron). Teams aren't contesting because Baron and Elder are bitches. They die way too easily, and have nowhere near the level of threat they used to.

Now buffing both of them is fine, but it won't make teams change how they APPROACH the objective. Currently, teams fish for a pick, then use Baron as bait to kill the rest, or kill Baron uncontested.

The buff buff (lol) combined with the changes to Tracker's Knife will only exacerbate this. It will be more risky to both start baron, and try and contest, even in the 5v5 (what I assume you are trying to achieve).


I put a break here because Tracker's Knife to me represents an issue with what appears to be (at least from where I am standing) Riot's philosophy driving their changes to the majority of the Pro Play scene for the last few years;** a change that increases risk-reward will proportionately increase fighting**.

The problem with this is the pro players by nature look for the play that has the LEAST RISK.

Barring totally breaking the game into clown-fiesta status reminiscent of the impact that the borderline un-tested juggernaut update had on 2015 Worlds, Pro Players will NEVER opt in to these high-risk high-reward plays.

Why risk a 5v5 at baron when you can slow push bot and get free gold from the tower.

The final result is the meta we have now. Solo Q is a mess where games are total landslide victories, but pro play has become so whittle down it is pretty much: "does this champion scale well and/or have consistent DpS (Azir, Ryze, Gangplank), can this champion set up easy engages onto high priority targets with minimal - if any - counterplay (Camille, Ornn), or does this champion have strong early game ganking (Jarvan, Kha Zix)". Support is currently "can I be a meatshield and/or interfere with the enemy carries (Braum, Taric)".

The champion pool is tiny, and pro players try to stall out games as long as possible (stopwatch, not fighting, objective trading vs contesting etc).

Crippling vision access will not change that.


Games like this (albeit maybe a tad long) are what you want.

Now I use this game for several reasons 1: SKT wins with the inferior late-game composition in a 60 minute+ game 2: CJ has multiple chances where they MAY WELL have been able to win the game, but they played safe 3: There are many fights, a lot of them different. 3.1: Damage across the board is a lot lower than currently. 3.2: There is more access to vision 4: Towers are threatening

Point 1. SKT should NOT have won this game based on composition. CJ is packing a DISGUSTING amount of AoE damage, crowd control, and utility. Any standard 5v5 should be CJ's every single time. SKT on the other hand have a team composition that is ENTIRELY reliant on Bang going fucking nuts (which he did). It excels at picking off targets and then creating skirmishes. Now despite the Maokai, Rek Sai, and AP Lulu comp, they are not that tanky, nor do they have a range advantage. It's not a team composition that has the tools to win a 5v5 vs CJ's. Monte brings this up several times throughout the game. SKT's pretty much ONLY win condition is Bang hard carrying the shit out of this team.

Point 2. CJ wins multiple fights this game, and with a Lich Bane Ziggs (even in season 5 this guy MURDERED towers late game), they could have won if they pushed for it. They didn't, which is hard to blame them for given they had the stronger 5v5. There would have been no reason to feel like they were in danger of losing. So they played the game out safe.

Point 3. There are so many varied fights in this game - skirmishes, 5v5s, 2v2s, turnarounds, outplays, Bang 1v5ing feat. the SKT support crew. This happens for the 2 reasons I listed before; Vision, and Damage. This was back when Warding totem had an upgrade, that basically became a re-charging mini-sightstone. There were more wards on the map FOR BOTH TEAMS. Damage was also lower, and it shows, as there is next to no champion that dies in under 2 seconds. These 2 things REDUCE RISK. If a fight goes sour, it's easier to escape alive, or delay long enough that the impact of the death is lessened (see Marin's hero play proxying the wave)

Point 4. Towers dealt more damage, and didn't die so easily early - they were easier to defend. First brick gold also didn't exist, so snowballing off a single tower was a lot harder to do. Losing 1 tower was not a big deal, and there were multiple ways to defend towers with relying on instagib waveclear from your mid laner. Again - less risk from someone dying.

All this culminates in CJ losing a game that purely based on team composition, they had no business winning.

This doesn't happen anymore.

SKT vs Jin Air earlier this year was similar, but SKT lost because they could not push the waves fast enough, and had the weaker 5v5. The game went late, so they lost.


I understand the rationale behind the changes, but they just don't translate into the pro scene that way.

The pros make informed decisions based on the knowledge they have available, and look for the lowest-risk play.

Stifling their ability to acquire knowledge, and making harder punishments for messing up, will only make them play safer.


Note; I put a lot of effort into this, so if it's not too bold to say, I'd like to hear what you think (@Riot/Meddler)

3 Comments

TreeDayBan2/15/2018, 4:27:30 AM2 votes

Pro play is too risk-adverse. I dont even know how they can fix it. Its sort of ingrained into the game. Even when they buff neutral objectives, teams then realize they cannot fight around them becuase if they lose them AND the fight, they auto-lose right then. So making them worth more still has the same affect as if they are worth less.

How can they fix this? Honestly I dont know. Games like CS:Go does not have this issue because their games are round based. Which is one reason I just feel it is the perfect Esport game. However, league is easier to get into and play than something like CS:GO, so its probably just more popular on average.

They need to find ways to make teams fight more. I know thats what these changes are meant to do, but they rarely work out. Teams just give the objectives up and roll over and die 10 minutes later, trying to stall, than just contest and lose right then. Even making kills worth more just means they will avoid dying even more. If they are worth less, they wont even try to get them. I honestly dont know how they fix it to make it more entertaining. Just the way the game is, with an increasing economy all in one game, makes it have these issues. Whereas every round in CS:GO is something new.

nelogis2/15/2018, 7:23:03 AM2 votes

You make some great points here!

Don't worry though Riot will ignore everything you mentioned and do the exact opposite because you don't need to play the game to design it :)

Good post though!