Why do so many people seem to dislike the recent "mini-games"?

OneSmoothDude·1/24/2016, 7:22:07 AM·10 votes·1,675 views

I've noticed that in general, whenever someone posts saying that they dislike the recent mini-games, they are generally agreed with and highly upvoted. I'd like to know why. It's my opinion that a lot of these so-called mini-games are actually good game design, good champion design, or both. Let's run through some of them.

Kindred's passive is cool. The randomness of Wolf's passive (mark enemy jungle camps) is somewhat awkward, but it gives them clear goals and rewards for attaining them. Same for the enemy team; if they can clear out their camps, they put them behind their curve. Again, rewarding for both parties if they choose to interact with it. Also, Lamb's passive (mark enemy champs) is interesting and introduces a lot of psychological mindgames. Both make you want to play aggressively and have a successful hunt. Good stuff.

Skarner's...is pretty lame, honestly. Altering the map is a step too far, in my opinion. Sure he's from the Crystal Scar so it's, uh, neat. But bottom line, it doesn't impact Skarner's or the enemy's gameplay in any meaningful way.

Garen's is perhaps the second-worst. Garen doesn't have any control over it, and honestly there's not much counterplay for the Villain other than "avoid bushes even more and kite him even more." But, then again Garen's kit isn't supposed to be complex; he has a simple combo, and this just expounds upon his goals of murdering people he gets close to. It also fits his Bringer of Justice theme well and it really resonates with people's inner Garen that just wants to go around dunking fools. Also, he becomes something of an anti-carry, which is something no other character does. (I think. Feel free to correct me on that one.)

Gangplank's barrels are freaking awesome. Again, satisfying and powerful for GP. Again, present counterplay because they're targetable by all and give a reward for being used foolishly. Putting these into GP's kit makes him 10x more interactive and interesting than he was pre-rework.

Fiora's is a little awkward due to the lack of control Fiora has over it. But the vitals are semi-random in that they don't appear on the same side consecutively if triggered. It also doesn't present a whole lot of counterplay except "don't let her get within like ~600 units of that vital." But it's exciting for Fiora she triggers them, and more importantly, it makes the Fiora play differently from other champs. You space yourself and almost dance around them. Compare that to someone like Jax or Irelia who just wants to use their stun to combo you then get out. Or, idk, Vlad or Annie, who basically have a huge threat zone around them. Fiora's numbers may be too high right not, but this is about design, not balance.

Do people consider Illaoi's tentacles a mini-game? I could see it, but then again, I don't see what would be bad about it either. Heimer turrets and Zyra plants have been around for years and they're much more obnoxious because they're self-firing and perma-firing. The tentacles are neither, except when you're a vessel, but then they're simple to take care of as long as you know they swing upon spawn and you just gotta kill them. And to even get that far you need to get hit by her E, which is a linear, minion-blockable skill shot that's not nearly as punishing because it doesn't have hard CC like Blitz's grab or a Morg Q. Not bad gameplay imo.

Poppy's passive isn't game-changing, but then again, is it bad? Every now and then she gets a ranged auto to help her with her otherwise pitiful range (and procs IBG and Deadman's, which is great for her). It then bounces nearby and gives her a shield which helps her jungle clear, or gives her a green light to initiate a trade in lane. How is this possibly worse than Malphite's passive? Xerath's? At least it's interesting in that it's interactive...but beyond that, it also has the depth to be rewarding for Poppy due to automatically returning to her if she kills a unit with it.

Rek'sai's tunnels aren't a bad thing either. Helpful for her to move around and be able to ult to, and equally beneficial for her enemies to get rid of. Not much more to say.

Bard's chime hunting? Fantastic. It plays into his character of wandering caretaker amazingly. I know, I know, that by itself wouldn't excuse bad gameplay...but I don't think it's bad gameplay, either. When you play him, it alters how you play him. It makes you WANT to wander and roam and get more powerful, like playing Garen makes you WANT to hunt down the Villain or playing Kindred makes you WANT to hunt down the enemy and be a huge cockblock during teamfights. He can even leave behind health and mana packs to cover his lane while he's not there, so the gameplay weaknesses are at least somewhat taken care of.

Braum's passive? Lux's passive? Zac's passive? Landing a good Malphite ult? Talon's gameplay as a whole (i.e. get a kill without dying yourself)? They're all "mini-games" too, but I don't see people get annoyed with theirs. In fact, every aspect of this game could be considered a mini-game, whether it be itemization, playing around Baron, split-pushing, controlling tower agro during a dive, or just plain CSing. The difference is that the ones I detailed above are just a little more explicit.

21 Comments

MasterPrankster1/24/2016, 9:05:50 AM8 votes

Mini-games that reward for interaction are good. See Kindred.

Champions that FORCE you into a mini-game are bad. See Illaoi.

Jacknife1/24/2016, 7:33:18 AM8 votes

I don't think you're seeing it quite the way everyone else is. I agree that mini-games CAN be good design, on some champs though it's either implemented poorly (Skarner or Fiora, as you've pointed out) or just feels tacked on, and wouldn't take away from the champion at all if it were removed (i.e. Garen). Besides that, it seems to be Riot's must-have for recent champion kits, kinda like how they often implement the 3-autos/3-hit passive, and it starts to be less original with each new champion, even if the mini-games are different. Riot hasn't gotten to this point yet, but if they keep it up it'll seem like they're beating a dead horse.

Melledoneus1/24/2016, 8:51:50 AM7 votes

Fiora's mini-game is the most annoying thing if you're just a tank who wants to freaking farm. I don't need some emo-punk French chick poking me with a sword and dealing stupid amounts of damage to me. Not to mention she only gets stronger and starts to one shot me, as a TANK... well, you know how that story goes.

Mini-games are only fun if they're not too disruptive (like, you know, missing out on farm because some buff lady turned you into a hentai magnet) or if you have the tools to play along (you know, unlike getting stabbed in my "vitals" even though I'm a monster made of freaking solid rock the size of a mountain).

If Fiora's vitals were more engaging than "learn how to DDOS or die," I wouldn't care about her true damage as much.

Crossette1/24/2016, 7:25:44 AM4 votes

I get annoyed AGAINST Braum's passive.

Braum andLucian is literally the stupidest shit.

But yeah, minigames aren't a problem.

ImpossibleGT1/24/2016, 8:47:31 PM2 votes

Gangplank's and Kindred's games are problematic.

Gangplank's barrels seem like they reward good play, but they don't. They reward GP for throwing down more barrels than can be destroyed before he detonates one. It's unnecessary complexity.

Kindred's is a problem simply because of the randomness. Mark nothing but Scuttle Crabs all game? Have fun stomping the enemy team with your free built-in BotRK. Mark nothing but enemy Gromp all game? Good luck with that. The first few stacks are the most important, so randomly getting a free one first from Scuttle can easily be the difference between an easy win or a crushing loss.

Chrome Raven1/24/2016, 7:29:15 AM2 votes

because fiora is not fucking balanced. so when you add that passive and her ulti, you CANT DO SHIT as an enemy laner.

WoonStruck1/24/2016, 7:57:07 AM1 votes

Skarner's mini-game missed the mark. That's why people throw a fit about mini-games.

Skarner, overall, feels great. I just want them to replace or modify his current passive.

Either its a win-more tool or bait for an enemy that's ahead of you.

Champion Skin1/24/2016, 9:02:45 AM1 votes

Skarner's...is pretty lame, honestly. Altering the map is a step too far, in my opinion. Sure he's from the Crystal Scar so it's, uh, neat. But bottom line, it doesn't impact Skarner's or the enemy's gameplay in any meaningful way.

That is no longer cannon as it was retconned here is Skarner's new lore

Skarner, the crystalline guardian, defends the entrance to a realm deep beneath the shuriman wastes. The few who survive trespassing his domain describe a creature of terrifying intelligence, anger, and precision. What this merciless creature protects, no one knows.

That's it... "I miss my kind Lore"

Weiner the Pooh1/24/2016, 7:36:35 AM1 votes

you know what is absolutely hilarious about Fiora? when she first came out everyone, and i mean everyone said her passive/ult were weak as hell and no everyone says its super broken. Like come on people, make up your mind.

MunchCrunchLunch1/24/2016, 9:46:53 AM1 votes

I feel like champions that have a mini game to reward them. themselves or their team. kindred hunt thing is a good thing. is a good thing. but things like fioras passive or illaoi's E are kinda. things that shouldn't be in the game. they practically need to pick these two champions to make your life harder off the bat without doing anything. braum's mini game should be for himself. idk why allies can also contribute. if it was just a 4 hit passive I'd be like whatever we have a bunch of them but it doesn't bother me. the problem mainly i have is with illaoi E. its too painful and punishing and all she has to do is land her E because only a retard would fight an illaoi with his soul taken. only to get double damaged off his soul and attacks that hit him.

hotarse1/24/2016, 11:32:03 AM1 votes

I just want to mention that it's not because it's OP, but I find GP's barrels minigame particularly tiresome. Not just this, but this additional facet to GP currently defines his play, meaning he occupies a very different space than he used to pre rework.

YossarianSensei1/24/2016, 12:11:31 PM1 votes

Because it's just stupid and goes against basic design philosophies that Riot had back in the day, mainly burden of knowledge

I'm willing to bet very few people know how many bonus stats Skarner gets from his towers, or how much damage Kindred's stacks give her. These are details that only someone who's experienced with playing these champs would know, so its very difficult for people who don't play those champs to gauge these champion's capabilities which is a huge deal because a lot of this game is intuitively knowing "can I beat the shyt out of that guy"

Maybe you could argue that it's just small details, but at the same time how much are these things really adding to the game? It's pretty pointless IMO.

Prime example is Thresh and his souls. His souls are soft-regulated so if you fall behind they drop more frequently, or if you have above avg then they drop less frequently, so at any given time Thresh is probably within a 5-10 armor range of what he's supposed to be at. If that's the case, why the hell does he even need souls? Riot could have just given him scaling armor and some better scaling on his abilities than to give him a gimmicky minigame.

Mandang01/24/2016, 7:30:28 PM1 votes

Reasons I dislike minigames:

**1) They're hidden power **- The person maining the champ with the minigame is going to be better at that minigame than the people they're playing against. This is even true for the relatively harmless minigames like Zac's.

**2) They draw a disproportionate amount of focus **- Regardless of how strong Yasuo's dashes are, the fact that I need to keep tracking where he's been is a drain, and I don't feel accurately rewarded for putting in the effort.

**3) They end up cluttering the game **- If Riot keeps pushing 3-hit passives, now everyone's going to need a new empowered animation. You'll need to track Vayne's rings, Vi's circles, Gnar's crap, Tahm's fish, Braum's upside-down mustache, etc....

ForPortal1/24/2016, 7:39:00 PM1 votes

{quoted}

Bard's chime hunting? Fantastic. It plays into his character of wandering caretaker amazingly. I know, I know, that by itself wouldn't excuse bad gameplay...but I don't think it's bad gameplay, either. When you play him, it alters how you play him. It makes you WANT to wander and roam and get more powerful, like playing Garen makes you WANT to hunt down the Villain or playing Kindred makes you WANT to hunt down the enemy and be a huge cockblock during teamfights. He can even leave behind health and mana packs to cover his lane while he's not there, so the gameplay weaknesses are at least somewhat taken care of.

Bard's chime hunting is (or was) terrible. Yes, it changes how people play him. That's the bloody problem, because a Bard who is faffing around looking for chimes isn't helping the team.

Jim The Toaster1/24/2016, 7:35:40 AM1 votes

My honest opinion is that minigames are pretty healthy. People have been complaining that Jhin's kit doesn't really have anything unique in it and that always seems so weird to me to complain about. After all, it's the addition of the minigames people dislike that makes the champions have their own unique playstyle.