Boards›Gameplay

Nautilus, Why even bother?

WickedCrow·1/15/2015, 4:16:26 PM·23 votes·3,648 views

This new buff isn't much of a buff at all. This new scaling is much better late game but thats the problem. This new "buff" means nautilus wont SURVIVE to the late game. Think about it, what kinds a champs are most common in the jungle now? Sustain and damage. Nautilus has neither. by severely weakening the early game "power" of his already inferior shield, Riot has effectively made a difficult tanky champ unplayable against any jungler that has the potential to counter jungle. It was already hard enough with the removal of the Spirit Golem item that helped give Naut the HP and defense to power through the jungle, but now...I'm not sure hes even playable. Can someone, somehow enlighten me as to how he could possibly be used anymore? Here are the problems I see: -Horrible early game due to ease of being counter jungled and lack of early game hp/def items -Horrible gank potential due to low hp and shield values in laning phase -Requiring lanes to check for counter jungles or leave to assist Nautilus during a counter jungle (essential makes him more of a burden) -Expensive item build means he wont have a complete item as early as most champs -Horrible damage values even for a tank, due to his DoT being linked to his shield -Current "buff" being effectively useless due to late game damage anyway (that extra 200 hp wont mean anything to the enemy ADC) This is just SOME of the problems that I see

EDIT: At Level 9 with a Giants belt Nautilus w/Giants belt has 1,296 New Scaling: 85 + (17% of MAX HP) = ~305 Shield Strength. (1,296x0.17) = 220 Old Scaling: 300 + (15% of BONUS HP) = ~357 Shield Strength (380x0.15) =57 This is roughly the end of early game and the new scaling is STILL WEAKER

EDIT2: Junglerboy16 Has made some excellent points and even has a graph showing that the new scaling is weaker till level 11, around where mid game tends to start. The graph can be seen here: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/r9uAjRKu-riot-live-balance-team-how-you-should-be-fixing-nautilus

98 Comments

Slaaneshine1/15/2015, 5:23:14 PM7 votes

I remember someone doing the math on the new shield, and it comes out having more even at the lower levels. Can't find it now sadly. The scaling is not bonus health now, it's maximum health. So the shield can get pretty sizable in the late game, and he has a bit more in the early game.

Tis a nice day1/16/2015, 4:07:05 AM6 votes

(no runes, no masteries, no hp items)

Level 1 naut - 576 hp Old shield = 100 hp New shield = 65 hp + 576 * 0.07 = 105.32 hp

Level 3 naut - 703 hp Old shield = 150 hp New shield = 70 hp + 703 * 0.095 = 136.78 hp

Level 5 naut - 842 hp Old shield = 200 hp New shield = 75 + 842 * 0.12 = 176.04 hp

Level 7 naut - 993 hp Old shield = 250 hp New shield = 80 + 993 * 0.145 = 223.985 hp

Level 9 naut - 1156 hp Old shield = 300 hp New shield = 85 + 1156 * 0.17 = 281.52 hp

...

Level 18 naut - 2038 hp Old shield = 300 hp New shield = 85 + 2038 * 0.17 = 431.46 hp

...

tl;dr OP is right, this is indeed an early game nerf from his level 2 shield all the way until his shield is maxed, though once that shield hits max, he's golden.

KMannnnn11/15/2015, 5:26:30 PM5 votes

Naut's shield has a weird power curve now, with it being less powerful at certain level/item combinations compared to before.

However, his shield is now stronger for early clears compared to before, and a bigger shield means better clears, better clears mean easier ganks, and easier ganks mean more potential lategame strength. He still probably won't be a top-tier jungle pick because of his other weaknesses, but to call this change anything besides a buff would be flat out wrong.

Joe Dredd1/15/2015, 4:29:01 PM4 votes

lol u suk. Naut has more HP at every stage of the game.

Terff1/15/2015, 6:47:35 PM4 votes

His shield is STRONGER early game because it scales off of MAX health instead of BONUS health.

junglerboy161/15/2015, 11:31:33 PM4 votes

I actually did all of the math, and the new shield is weaker at every level except level one where it has 0.3 more strength. It only catches up to live at level 11. LEVEL FRICKIN' 11! They nerfed his weakest point in the game, and called it a BUFF?!? Riot balance is either still hungover from New Years or simply doesn't actually care about real balance.

INTER5TELLAR1/15/2015, 4:26:09 PM4 votes

The new jungle seems like it has horribly reduced the number of viable junglers, opposed to giving more "diversity" as Rito stated. All I ever see is Shaco, WW and Xin now, tbh.

I used to LOVE jg on Naut. In the old jg, his shield was pretty decent, but now it does next to nothing for him.

I agree about the late game buffing of the shield, but tbh, that lategame is pretty long to reach and you need to clear the jg fairly quickly/efficiently to be able to gank to be able to even be effective to your team to reach that lategame supershield.

4nth0l0gy1/16/2015, 2:57:59 AM3 votes

Why wont they JUST SEPARATE THE AOE DAMAGE AND THE SHIELD

Is that SO HARD?

item 3070Nautilusitem 3070

Spacesuit Spiff1/16/2015, 6:04:22 AM2 votes

You're making a few of those points up to bolster your argument. His ganks are pretty much the strongest in the game (Jarvan contests him depending on your laner) and that hasn't changed. He can do alright in the current jungle if you start Krugs (the stun lets him keep the shield up longer), counterjungling is a real problem for him but you can always just gank constantly and hope you get your team ahead enough that they can carry you later when you have no gold because the enemy jungler has been taking your camps.

The biggest problem with him, which numbers aren't going to change, is that some games all 3 lanes are going to idiotically push for all of lane phase and you won't get any ganks off. Then you're stuck farming the jungle with your crappy clear speed while the enemy jungler either takes all sorts of free kills or just outfarms you. Your only recourse at that point is to try to steal camps, or countergank (which is hard when all 3 lanes are totally gankable and you don't have deep wards).

FenrirStriker1/16/2015, 1:46:50 PM2 votes

I havent had the chance to try naut since the new patch, however the maths do tell his shield isnt as strong as previous value until it reaches lvl 4-5. that said I'm somewhat concerned that whit the base value of his shield now being so low, it might ** limits his item build** as you mostly want to build hp on him. for example people will prioritize a randuin instead of a frozen heart simply because of the hp the item gives as to some people prefered FH for the cdr it offered and the as slow aura ( the main exchange was stronger shield vs less cd between/faster shield) or people will get mostly banshee instead of say wits end, again simply to make the shield stronger.

again these are just example of items builds that might seem obsolete due to his new scaling and base value being so low. another issue I'd like to point out is since your now mostly interested in rushing hp to make his shield viable it should in theory make you much less viable against say hp shredding item or abilityVayne ( for example)

I will have to try out the new naut when i get the chance, but just though i'd share my concerns so far.

RumblesMeatballs1/16/2015, 3:36:10 PM2 votes

gotta remember that you can have runes and masteries to increase this which in the end the new scaling will have better potential than the old scaling

you can look at the base numbers all you want but a typical Nautilus user starts off with roughly 800 HP plus Juggernaut which gives 500 HP and Giants Belt which gives 350 if i remember correctly and he'll probably have that by level 9 and if he's getting off good ganks then he'll probably have more than that

overall this is a pretty large buff since you'll end up with around 4k HP by end game if not more

taking away the bonus HP you can potentially start with and doing the math with just Juggernaut and Giants belt the new scaling is at 426 while his old scaling is 427

so its literally only 1 better at level 9 and if you keep going and adding more his new scaling gets better and better i mean with those same items at level 10 it becomes 440.6 and it stays the same for his old scaling since you aren't adding to his bonus HP

now let's try level 18 with just the giants belt new scaling: 490.96 old scaling: 352.5

and actually looking it up its 380 for giants belt woops but doesn't make this any less correct since if he has 350 bonus HP that's where it stands

but if you're looking as base stats its a nerf yes but as i said Nautilus is an HP tank so overall this is a pretty big buff

SnackieCakes1/24/2015, 2:40:08 AM2 votes

The buff is pretty weak, if even really a buff at all (he trades some mid game survivability for late game survivability), but I also don't think Nautilus needed a buff in the first place. He's actually a really strong champion, he just has his place and won't succeed with every composition.

I main Nautilus and made the following guide, if you're looking to be more successful with him: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/tips-tricks/EXNQT1Ge-nautilus-viable-snackiecakes-guide-also-extensive-jungling-tips-generally

Tengrichan1/16/2015, 12:17:23 PM1 votes

All these people who can't into math but still trying to defend their own ego because they got exposed.Hilarious.