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Why are tanks so squishy now?

KGDisasta·12/18/2015, 9:21:34 AM·17 votes·1,877 views

Every game where i play as a tank, no matter how much health or armour i have, I am dying in a matter of fractions of seconds. Armour and MR have Deminishing returns so you cap out on average at around 75% reduction, which sounds amazing, but with all the pen options out there and bonus damage you die before you can react to the damage. They need to have an item that trades offensive stats for defensive stats. People complained about the "tank meta" when it was that awkward week when sejuani and cinderhulk were broken. And again when the juggernauts were released, MEGA broken. but i don't think there has been a point where i have played any tank (including full armour rammus vs all AD) and actually felt like i survived for any meaningful length of time. I am finding that if i have an average of 300~ armour and 4-5000 health i usually last less than 4 seconds when facing the current AD meta. i have seen tonnes of posts on "effective health" and how the tanks stats are suppose to work, but ultimatey i am getting chunked for 1/4 of my health per second by indirect fire, and usually taking upwards of 1500-2000 damage per second if i am focused.

This translates to massively squishy "squishies" if i am playing a caster type support, or mage midlane i usually die in one shot, or less than one full rotation from any adc. And conversly any person with 80 or more armour can take 10 turret hits and walk away.

The whole damage mitigation system needs to be reworked to be simple and above all effective. if garen builds tank stats, his damage should be minimal, if an adc tower dives with 80 armour they should damn near explode, and if i am a rammus with 600+ armour with my W active i should be nearly unkillable. the way alistairs ult works is how tanks should feel, but at the cost of most of their damage output so that tanks can be disruptors of teamfights without contibuting significantly to the overall team damage.

30 Comments

DorkunedAuras12/19/2015, 12:09:40 AM6 votes

ARmor and MR do not have diminishing returns. each point gives 1% more effective hp against that damage type, regardless of how much you have. if you have 1k hp and 0 armor, it takes 1k physical damage to kill you. 100 armor and 1k hp means 2k damage to kill. 200 armor = 3k damage. That doesn't drop off.

Shonjl12/19/2015, 12:25:04 AM4 votes

Its funny you say that since I just played a game as Mundo for the very first time (I bought him ages ago but never really had a desire to play him, even in his OP state which people claim) I was sitting at 5k hp with pretty average armor and mr and basically nothing short of all 5 people attacking me could kill me, and even then if they let me ult before they did, I could endure it.

So not really sure what you are talking about much. I can understand if Vayne or Fiora was around since they are the ultimate tank killers but if your team just focuses and kills them, nothing else can stop you.

Not to mention as a tank you are meant to die for your team. If I am playing Garen or tanky GP or Mundo, I consider it a success if I initiate a fight and deal a decent amount of damage or cc and absorb a lot of their cc or ults. If they use like 3 ults on me and some hard CC, even if i instantly die, thats a lot less they have to use on my team, and that is time my team is hurting them or ccing them.

MunchCrunchLunch12/19/2015, 12:00:44 AM1 votes

because AAs adcs like vayne, jinx. oh especially vayne. will kill you in seconds by themselves no matter how tanky you are. vayne will kill in in a handful of shots. because of her W

MF is my Waifu12/19/2015, 12:02:15 AM1 votes

didn't need to read essay to answer topic title

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Erockandroll12/19/2015, 12:15:15 AM1 votes

I feel like it's a matter of perspective. You say that your dying in seconds. A glass cannon would only survive a split second against a burst mage or Assassin.

Over all, Your high tank members (True tanks, or Juggernauts.) should be killed if a tank shred oriented ADC kills them. (assuming they don't get caught out.) Or if the simply get ganged up on. (Or possibly out dueled, but Tanks shouldn't be dueling.)

Personally, out side of tankyness, get CDR. Because you CC is your damage resistance. They can't kill you if they're CCed.

Earl Eulrich12/19/2015, 12:15:19 AM1 votes

that has always been how it worked...dmg just outscales tankiness ridiculously hard. So if the team with 3carries gets ahead or to lategame a tank will just blow up. If the tank gets the lead though he becomes nearly immortal during the midgame. neither of that is really good...i think they really need to reconsider their approaches to these systems.

DREADN0UGHT12/19/2015, 2:39:53 AM1 votes

item 3034

Elisza Kitsune12/19/2015, 5:09:46 AM1 votes

The tanks I've gone against are perfectly tanky if built and farmed correctly (Chogath Garen)

Beldair12/19/2015, 5:17:49 AM1 votes

Haven't noticed a squishy factor to Naut.

Hard4Hamsters12/19/2015, 7:41:20 PM1 votes

I really don't see this in my games. If I am considerably tanky as a champion, I feel like it takes a lot more to kill me than say in season 5 or 4. Due to the changes in Armor effectiveness due to last whisper being changed, I feel a lot more effective as a tank. Now I think that there are certain things to consider if you are feeling you are getting melted quickly as a tank. How far ahead are you? Are you even ahead at all? How far ahead are the enemy carries? Do they have considerable penetration items? Particularly, does the adc have a giant slayer (given you have built a lot of health)? Am I overextending/do I have the support of my allies? Am I the only tanky individual on my team? How am I playing my tank (as a diver or a protector)?

Taking all these things into consideration, you can add up a lot of disadvantages as a tank. I think league of Thunderlord's might be a problem too as it adds considerable magic damage even if you are spec'd to deal with a mostly Physical damage team (no bonus MR). However, I think that tanks are probably in the healthiest spot they've been in a long time. They feel hard to kill, but you can itemize to help you kill them, but it isn't as easy as it was before with a Bork or a Last Whisper. Even after these items in the games current state, they feel harder to kill than landing 2 crits on them and they are effectively out of the fight.

Another misconception is that Tanks are lategame champions. They are actually pretty weak in the lategame and will likely die in most teamfights if their team is behind or the teams are evenly matched. Tanks are best utilized in the midgame when they have built some good defensive items, but before enemy carries have built %penetration items that would help them take care of such frontlines. Tanks fall off later in the game, but I feel like the 3rd item last whisper is a lot less appealing than it used to be so Tanks fall off later than they used to.

Anyway. I think one of the biggest problems is overextending as a tank. It is fairly easy to do, particularly if you are a diver like Malphite. This allows for you to be focused down without any major repercussions besides maybe using an ultimate or 2 (which is still fine in the 5 v 4 situation that follows). If your team cannot back you up because you are too far forward, you will have a harder time surviving as a tank unless you are considerably ahead.

Nekusen12/19/2015, 9:53:41 PM1 votes

because they deal more damage now with the new items

barbarianskull12/22/2015, 10:24:15 PM1 votes

I had 600 armour on malphite this week and i didn't feel that way at all

B00B0012/18/2015, 9:31:03 AM1 votes

the way alistaits ult works is not how every tank should feel, not by a long shot.

now how far ahead are you? how far ahead is your enemy mid/top/adc when your getting chunked? im finding pretty similar results as per previous patches. their not as tanky as the height of the cinderhulk meta which is good, though honestly prior to pre-season changes i thought the balance was actually pretty damn good.

ADC's will settle down you remember what AP was like after the first pass of item changes and tanks (cinderhulk meta) - so things will settle down again.

Dirty Roleplayer12/22/2015, 10:28:55 PM1 votes

Because Riot nerfed armor and magic resistance. Also new masteries don't offer pure armor and magic resistance. Like it was in S5.

AyRe CoNteMpT12/18/2015, 11:15:16 AM1 votes

i didnt read your post but just realize, "tanking" doesnt mean having alot of hp/armor, it means being such a big threat that you cant be ignored but you also dont die instantly.

also, tanks who are behind/even were always squishy because defensive items dont scale as good as offensive items.