There's nothing wrong with supports.

SirLapse·11/24/2016, 10:57:53 PM·28 votes·1,752 views

The last few days have gone by and I've seen people go back and forth about how supports need to be more rewarding or something, but supports aren't the problem. Please read the full thing before replying, as some things I say might come off as misleading if you read only one sentence.

First of all, what are supports? You could say they're playmakers but, at the end of the day, they can't make those plays rewarding on their own. So in reality, you could call supports "setup champions." Some supports play to their own advantage more than the ADC they're with, and therefore a real support is someone that makes things on the map happen. The whole situation with support singed and how he was double jungling, it definitely was still a form of support. It just wasn't the conventional kind and therefore not everyone is going to be prepared for it. Many players are not prepared for what is not conventional, because Riot obviously does not support it directly.

Second, where does a support's strength come from? They come from your team or the gold you've gotten yourself. Naturally that means items are there for supports to better help their team, or borrow from the laner pool of items to assist themselves. This is why support items are typically trash (or at least were in the past) for Sona who heavily relied on AP scaling as a support, so she would have to use her low gold income to get expensive AP items. Solo queue is not ANY place to be trying to go full-support-help-your-team mode, because nobody really trusts their teams. There are people who do it regardless, and those people are the real MVPs. I'm making this topic in hopes of seeing more support players.

Anyway, what does this then mean when the role is becoming unpopular yet again? It means that the supports want more relevance, to which their items do not allow. Let's clarify one thing that supports are in the game's current state:

LEECHES.

Now don't get me wrong, supports can be the true playmakers that lead to victories. It has been seen many times in both Solo queue and pro play. They aren't useless by any stretch. However...

Not only do supports rely on already existing items that can be bought by other champions, but they usually get new items that are usually so cost efficient that laners would use them (Frost Queen's Claim), leading to the item's utility getting nerfed. This greatly affects the support role by diminishing returns on bought items. Locket of the Iron Solari...also experiencing this now (even if a nerf isn't expected right now). History repeats itself yet again. Supports that want to benefit themselves have to pay full gold of what any other champion would, but they have considerably less farm to do so. They have no options for CS outside of relic shield and were made to be efficient even without as much farm, preventing them from getting any stronger. Tanks primarily have been the most efficient at the support role because tank items aren't that expensive and Face of the Mountain impacts gameplay greatly.

Supports have no item branching paths limited to the investment that only supports can get. In other words, their items paths lack incentive. More than that, their incentives right now are not rewarding in the least. It's the champions being played and the efficiency of said champion that makes the support role "good." Sightstone is an HP dump that rewards tanks more. Sona actually would prefer not to even go for such a thing. Neither would any other mage support really. Yet the idea of an AP Sightstone that doesn't build from Ruby Crystal never came up?

The logical solution to the item branching would then be to MAKE SUPPORT ITEMS MEANT FOR SPECIFIC SUPPORTS. Oh? What's that? We already have those? Let's break this down then on what these items do:

  1. item 3302 : Gives HP and a healing effect dependent on hitting CS. Scales off of HP for the execute, and arguably gives the lowest gold out of any support item if you get zoned off of CS.

  2. item 3301 : Mana Regen, passive gold the longer you stay in lane with your carry killing stuff. Item for passive supports that aren't going to be aggressive in lane, otherwise the lowest gold gain out of every support item.

  3. item 3303 : Mana Regen, passive gold regardless of staying in lane, rewards for hitting the opponent with literally any spell at all. Tiny bit of AP.

Now can you tell me honestly that these items gain relevance as you slowly upgrade them? I don't believe so. Historically it's their final upgrades that lead to such a reward, and for supports that is very far away considering how much farm they usually obtain. So basically you have a mediocre item for 7 minutes or more in the game and have to pay 800g into Sightstone. The items themselves lack gold efficiency, and that is inexcusable if we're talking about why support is unpopular, since this issue has been here for years. Riot said that they'd experiment more with the support items (and have been doing so) but have halted it for the starting items.

The lack of creativity in the evolution of these items (all due respect to the creators since these items were made long ago), is what led to this in the first place. What is the other thing people spend in the game other than gold? Time. That's where things should've been heading for GP5/10 items, and they proved too strong on junglers and laners, but not on supports. Yet there's another angle to this -- just think of Gangplank. He needs to land his Q specifically on minions and although he has support from his barrels, he still needs to burn Q consistently to perform his strategy. Spellthief took this idea to its limits but ended up being the only effective item for quite some time because GP/5 was avoided on the other items.

Riot, if you want to make support a more favorable role, you're going to have to make more aggressive approaches to the starting item. Make it like Sated Devourer if you have to, but it needs to fulfill the condition that only supports can do, which is spend time in lane without CS'ing that much. The pay-off needs to reward the champion enough for them to have a much more serious impact on the game.

Example:

Let's say I buy Spellthief's edge, which rewards aggressive mage supports. What I'd want to do is hit the enemy champions as much as possible, and the mana regen should be buffed accordingly to allow me to do so. To avoid mid laner abuse, the item upgrades would not be purchasable. The upgraded effect requires hitting let's say 30 spells or autoattacks (with a 3 second cooldown) without killing any minion, and has a CD of 30 seconds if I do kill any minion. The CD would then be decreased by 5 seconds if my ally last hits a creep, allowing a support to effectively be the only user. The upgraded effect would then reflect on the champion pool that would use this, meaning mage supports typically. So, the upgraded effect would be something like an AoE on-spell move, similar to Iceborn Gauntlet but damage everything in its radius over time while slowing.

Things like that are much more dynamic and require that you be a support in order to achieve the final effect. It wouldn't matter what champion you are, the effect requires that you be in lane and do what an aggressive support would normally do. You'd get a powerful effect and be able to do more mage-like things in the middle of buying things like Sightstone. This also removes burden of knowledge to an extent but definitely opens up an entire playstyle for the role that has its own rewards. The other support items might need changes or even new items introduced to add even more to the support roster, but for now we need to fix what we have.

Lastly, the lack of a "binding" option to the laner you're with so that if you ks them it still counts as their kill creates a lot of room for toxicity and also makes for a terrible fluidity in lane if the support is upholding most of the kill potential in lane. If these support items could do that as well, or possibly a mastery, it would be very effective at solidifying the idea that a support gains a team advantage more than self-advantage.

TL;DR: I would greatly advise you read the actual post but basically:

The starting support items are the reason supports are not a fun role. There is nothing wrong with the support role. Since the items literally are mediocre until fully upgraded, you're essentially playing a mediocre champion that can assist an ADC with his/her job. Make the starting items able to be upgraded through gameplay, not gold. Let supports actually have their starting item become a threat if they are succeeding. Solo queue has never been a safe place to pick support because not many supports are able to become independent after snowballing in bot lane unless the ADC is already on a killing spree. Supports also lack an ability to gain team advantage since they cannot split-push, give no advantage for ks'ing (it's unavoidable at times), and don't get their items quickly. The first two are real problems, the other makes sense due to the position.

I greatly appreciate anyone who has read this and would like to hear your opinions. Support is one of the roles I'd like to main but it's just not favorable at the moment for me. Playing non-traditional supports right now which the lane doesn't favor feels best because I can go into better items if we win lane, and I just find that reflects on the starting items.

25 Comments

My Sea Cow11/24/2016, 11:09:23 PM8 votes

As a support main (though I"m new to being a support main), I do agree with you completely and thank you for writing this! I wish I could up vote it more then just one time.

I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with the support role and you touched on the issues that does make it harder to go full support mode, which is what I generally play (Janna/Nami/Morgana/Taric, etc), gold income, other laners abusing our items, etc.

6Sfool11/25/2016, 2:12:55 AM5 votes

I think Riot's made a good attempt at making support items more interesting. Look at all the healer items, the relatively new item actives on the gold income items, and the new locket. I could go for a few more items to add to the variety, but it's going in the right direction. It is no longer "buy these items because they're only ones that actually help your teammates". Also, Sightstone is 200 health. Every support including soraka should build a least 200 health just to avoid being an easy target for sniping. I wish it was more gold efficient, but I'm glad there are no ap options for it.

I feel that the issue with supports is more gameplay-related. A support needs to constantly find ways to be useful, of which the most common is warding. They roam up and down river and they keep tabs on the enemy buffs, and they don't hesitate to go assist a nearby fight between junglers. All this roaming starves them of xp. I commonly end up anywhere between 2 and 5 levels behind my allies, depending on whether my carry or another laner got fed. If my carry is last hitting in lane and the enemies are somewhere else, I'm a hell of a lot more useful checking on dragon than I am standing next to the carry and soaking up xp, so why should I be punished for leaving?

What I propose is xp benefits tied to support items. It would start as a unique passive for sightstone, and would be present in all variations of 3rd tier support items. A couple ideas:

  1. Coming into 1000 range of a designated ally who has recently farmed minions without sharing the xp starts a 10 second buff that grants you 33% of the total xp value of up to 9 minions. Killing a unit or one of you dying stops the buff. Minions killed are only tracked while the ally is designated. This compensates a support for roaming, but does not allow abuse cases where the support only visits lane every 3 minion waves or blatantly afks.

  2. Grants an amount of xp for every time an enemy is seen in the jungle through your wards' vision. Additional xp is granted if that champion is killed within 30 seconds. This one's pretty simple, but it rewards supports (or anyone with sightstone) for warding, especially for coordinating with your jungler.

DrugsForRobots11/25/2016, 12:47:43 AM3 votes

You blame the support starter items, but not SS itself?

SS wouldn't have to exist if the wards we had access to weren't so powerful. All of the wards (excluding the Farsight ward) have a 1000 unit sight radius which makes it very difficult to outplay (especially when those wards are invisible.) The support role would be a lot more exciting if we had more varied ways of getting sight, wards that had an exploitable sight or limits on their sight in some way. They'd be less of a mandatory anti-gank tax and more a form of insurance.

And if wards had some kind of innate weaknesses, then things like SS or just wards themselves, needn't be so expensive, meaning everyone could afford to participate in warding, yeah?

UsiTsukino11/25/2016, 2:25:15 AM3 votes

Like I've been saying in some threads:

Riot should made an Blue Sighstone (AP), Red Sighstone (Health), White Sightstone (Armor), Green Sightstone (AD), just like they did with those starting jungle items.

I personally don't want SS to get removed, because I've been in games were my team doesn't put a ward. Or they start putting wards and then, they forget to ward the rest of the game. And if I say "Help me put wards" I get insulted, or ignored. I can't play this game without putting a single ward. If they remove Sightstone, I feel like they're removing a part of my soul. xD But is a strange feeling... Because sometimes I can buy another good item for protection, but no, I have to buy that goddamit Sightstone.

It probably has to do with the starting items you mentioned in your post. I saw a mid laner using it today. D;

Also, I need a item 3364 to help me clean enemy wards, or Teemo's shrooms, or whatever. So replacing Sighstone with the item 3361 isn't a great idea... At least for me.

PD: Put a new Slot for the Control Waaaaaaaaaaaaards !!!

ChaddyFantome11/25/2016, 3:47:00 AM2 votes

Supports need to have their own minigames to feel more independent. Bard chimes andThresh souls are a good example of this, as it gives them n inherent goal to accomplish in of themselves as supports and gives them a sense of accomplishment and self.

Zone of Endless11/25/2016, 12:04:46 AM2 votes

Support is fine as is. It's the mentality of player that needs to change. People don't touch or hate support because of "If I don't do big damage I'm not carrying" mentality.

But if they really wanted to they can just play Zyra/Brand/Annie support for damage.

ChaddyFantome11/25/2016, 1:27:22 AM2 votes

Support main here. I love this post so much. it needs more Upvotes!

one thign i wanna touch on tho.

Lastly, the lack of a "binding" option to the laner you're with so that if you ks them it still counts as their kill creates a lot of room for toxicity and also makes for a terrible fluidity in lane if the support is upholding most of the kill potential in lane. If these support items could do that as well, or possibly a mastery, it would be very effective at solidifying the idea that a support gains a team advantage more than self-advantage.

The problem with this is it would lead to a lot of abuse cases with people using it to give all the gold to 1 person.

Personally, i think it is time to retire sightstone.

It really is rather backwards that Riot wants to make vision the teams job as opposed to just the supports, but also makes it the supports job to get sightstone.

In any game where the teams are even semi organized, the team without sightstone loses, because vision is just that powerful, but at the same time, being forced to get sightstone sucks, is needlessly limiting for the role and favors tank supports more than others inherently.

You literally have to pay and give up an active just to not have a slot wasted on the thing.

Lastly, and I know this will sound a bit aggressive, but ultimately i believe what makes Support the least popular role is the lack of agency. Support often feels less like a role on its own and more a siderole attached the to adc. Whatsmore, you are almost completely dependent on the ability of your teamates.

As a support, you can make the best play in the world but if your ADC is a jerk, an idiot or just plane doesn't know what they are doing, you suffer with them, sometimes even without them.

An ADC can later just play and farm up and then try to catch up but doing so as a support basically requires you sit around in lane trying to catch up on XP and what little gold u get from GP5s , but you can't because you are expected to roam alone and ward at risk of dying.

To "fix" support if that term is even applicable, supports need to be able to feel more, even if just a little more independent, like they have their own golds and benchmarks to reach and feel less tied to the ADC and more like they are WITH them.

You example of upgradeable Support items is phenomenal n this regard and I deeply hope it returns.

Lastly, the lack of a "binding" option to the laner you're with so that if you ks them it still counts as their kill creates a lot of room for toxicity and also makes for a terrible fluidity in lane if the support is upholding most of the kill potential in lane. If these support items could do that as well, or possibly a mastery, it would be very effective at solidifying the idea that a support gains a team advantage more than self-advantage.

This sums it up what i was saying perfectly.

Whatsmore, am I the only one who misses Frostqueens old Active? Your Idea actually sounds similar to it.

timmytumturner11/25/2016, 2:20:58 AM2 votes

You're completely right. This is the main reason why i main bard support because even if i don't have any ap items i can still deal a good amount of damage due to meeps and collecting chimes. The only issue is having an adc who can't understand that bard supp needs to roam from time to time in order to maintain the lead he/she achieves (And yes, maintaining lane pressure is difficult with a roaming bard but i usually roam while understanding where the jgler is and how the wave is pushing). I'd love to see some new items that help supports be more relevant in teamfights and such but to be honest riot's done a pretty good job with the recent items update. Although i do miss the aoe mr from aegis and sometimes i do get the itch to just go full ap sona/zyra to burst people up.

Nogrim11/25/2016, 4:15:19 AM2 votes

i used to be a support main, frankly it was abuse from the community that made me stop.

do you people really think shitting on your support is going to make them want to help you? do you really think the subject of your abuse will willingly play support again? i play games to have fun, being constantly berated and bitched at is not fun.

if its not fun to play the role then no one will want to do it. especially when most supports as you say are already deal with boring options and crappy items

agbudar11/26/2016, 5:38:00 AM1 votes

item 3301 is the safest form of gold gain and as such usually outscales the other 2 in terms of how much gold is actually/practically gained from them

Sonata di Sona11/25/2016, 4:43:15 AM1 votes

I'm ok with most of the things that the role Support offers (I actually love supporting), but making us buy item 2049 almost as an obligation, is the part that needs some changes, specially when is a support that doesn't build item 2303 item 2302 item 2301 that often.

mushiman411/25/2016, 3:25:21 PM1 votes

i'am a support main Braum and i'm always having fun playing supp, how you ask ? because saving your teammates and getting praised for it feels rewarding

Oglaf11/25/2016, 3:49:50 PM1 votes

All I read was just first saying there was nothing wrong with Supports.

Then went on to call them LEECHES.

[zombie-brand-clap]

nfzeta11/25/2016, 8:41:37 PM1 votes

I heavily agree with this post. Especially, the areas about upgrading support items through gameplay and more branching build paths.

The italic text contain what I consider the viable suggestions, read those if the wall of text is daunting

The gameplay upgrading especially, it could be through mini-games similar to Bard or Thresh in-built into the items, where for champions with shields and heals it slowly upgrades or like a Gangplank passive where damaging or CC'ing champions slowly builds stacks.

Heck even something that was mentioned within this post is another good example where 6Sfool talked about ward sightings and vision assisted kills give exp or gold benefits. These could all be incorporated into support items so that they wouldn't be anywhere near as good for other laners as it not only requires you buy the item early but play in a support capacity enough and long enough to upgrade them, both being hard for normal laners.

Another thing that came to me is rather than making supports impactful only directly through their skills and placed wards you could also make them impactful in the game by means similar to what Nasus had. In that they have a threat of scaling. For example, all those failed ganks or vision taken objectives can result in further scaling or their items of abilities (the ability part would require major reworks). That way not only is the support potentially rewarded but the reward comes from supporting their team to the point it actually poses a threat to the outcome of the game when a jg or any other roamer constantly comes bot and fails or is constantly taking objectives without clearing vision (this can even apply to buffs taken under vision in jg).

This can be taken further into laning itself where constant good trades play as much into the supports hands as the ADCs and can even be used to punish bad supports. Say for example the classic Soraka support who only stays back and heals, by healing and just dropping out of combat constantly scaling can be prevented or in situations where healing and shielding is done but less effective damage is traded, scaling can be slowed but still be effective for 'farm lanes'.

This is all a bit jumbled and even definitely in need of idea tweaking as some require too much reworking of the game but I think this is the box Riot needs to open. I mean look at Shyvana , she now has a similar threat of letting a farm jungler farm, not only their jg, but objectives, and that gives a harsher punishment.

The same things can be true for supports, whether built within individual champions or within items. A Bard roaming for chimes without too much dmg taken by ADC. This could maybe be done using comparison between dmg taken by ADC or exp lost and chimes collected which gives a buff on return to lane, whether that be an exp buff, a gold buff or even a temporary stat buff. **Or in instances like Lulu or Karma where the dmg taken or given while their shields on the champion build something similar to retaliation/aggression stacks for the supports to use, giving slightly more CC duration or a slightly heavier slow or heal here or there. Basically having a support accurately catch damage or support well in a trade actually benefits the lane somewhat even on the side of a losing trade. ** **_A champ like Braum is a great case for this kind of experiment. Instead of making his shield so inherently tanky, you could even remove the full block on the first hit and rather reward him for actually blocking dmg with maybe a scaling armour/MR buff (like Camile depending on the damage the shield is taking) with the more dmg you absorb and apply that buff directly after the shield. _ ** These sort of buffs may make the supports less useful in roles other than support but it would make them MUCH more useful as supports and more fun to play, especially if all these rewards for good play are more visual. Things like a slow change in colour while Braum blocks more dmg, or something a simple as a small glow akin to sheen on champions with a healing power power buff granted after a good trade with a shield. A nice sound effect on damage granted by retaliation stacks.

MeBuffULongTime11/25/2016, 8:54:13 PM1 votes

I'm a support main and I really enjoyed reading your post! I definitely feel like there is room to improve with starting items and the efficiency of sightstone. Hopefully we can get some more answers/improvements in the future Support Update! Thresh

JustJayson11/25/2016, 9:42:25 PM1 votes

I agree with parts of your post. As someone who mains and enjoys playing support I know there are a lot of areas they should improve on. Gold issues is one of them especially since most supports suffer level deficits on top of low gold income which leaves you with lower base stats and fewer items as well.

Lately when playing there are few champions that I rush sightstone on, and i rarely upgrade starting support items until 5th item unless i need extra mana regen or cdr, but with item 3107 it solves that issue now as a first big item on many supports.

Since vision is a team effort, I do not feel obligated to get a sight stone as people should be warding their own lanes and playing around the vision they have. When you begin roaming as a support then its usually a good to have boots and a sightstone to get better vision on jungle routes and objectives.

Right now I believe there are at least 30 viable support picks, although many are better utilized in other lanes. I am afraid if they buff support position such as additional gold income or experience then you are going to see meta changes because of it and the support role will slip away to having mages and assassin picks in the bot lane. Then you will see support invades to solo kill junglers and really throw the entire balance of the game off. When balancing the support role, any changes to it will affect other lanes greatly one way or another and I believe that is what makes it so difficult to balance out.

Risk of Fate11/25/2016, 12:01:08 AM1 votes

Support main/secondary since late Season 4, I definitely can feel that the early game definitely hurts as a support especially with how badly underfunded I'm usually am. In a 10 minute farm game with some harass, I'm at about 500 while my ADC is sitting on 900 or so. Backing means I lose out on more gold which puts me further behind. Even running Bandit, I'm just barely able to get a Sightstone in maybe the second or third back.

Another thing is late game relevance. I'm usually about 4 levels under everyone else and working on my third item against people with their core three in and working on a fourth. The changes in this patch however did put a smile on my face as I managed to live long enough to have the enemy blow their cooldowns while playing Lux.

item 3190 <= This item. The one with the crappy shield before, now this thing is staying in my list against burst comps.

As well, I honestly don't see the use of item 2303 item 2302 item 2301 as you're trading a decent active (shield, speed, slow) for slightly worse stats. Sure it frees an item slot, but you're less tanky/utility because of it. More often I'm going with their other path along with a Ruby Sightstone.