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Luden's Echo Clarity of Tooltip and Thoughts on the item

icedragon8806·3/14/2015, 5:24:37 AM·3 votes·1,830 views

item 3285 Luden's Echo, the new 120 ap item brought in to fill the void of the Deathfire Grasp in terms of ap itemization. I don't feel like this item fills Deathfire Grasp's niche (A niche Riot clearly wants to go away) but is a step towards more and better ap itemization. There are some things worth mentioning with the item. Weird interactions, Who might be the best use for it, and who might be some overlooked sleepers with this item.

However the first thing I want to mention are a few weird interaction that may or may not be intended but I found weird. Bard's passive Meeps proc the effect. This seems strange since the items says on next spell cast. I would hardly call meeps a spell. Ezreal's and GP's Q do not apply the effect which seems very odd for at least Ezreal. I can understand not wanting to support AP GP as a side build but AP Ezreal has always been a side build for him and not procing from his Q does seem a bit odd since it's his main spell. These interactions point to an inconsistency of clarity regarding the wording of the item. The item clearly states on spell cast.

Now this leaves two options to clarify. Either state that the spells must deal magic damage or reclassify Ezreals and GPs Q's as auto attack modifiers. Yasuo's Q specifically says that it is a skill shot basic attack so there is an option to state that these are just modified auto attacks or are they spells.

My personal thoughts on this is that Meeps should not as GP's Q should not. The reason I think Ezreal's Q should proc over GP's Q is that Ezreal has always had that AP build side path where as AP GP has always just been considered a trolly build.

The next thing I'd like to mention is that on dominion or twisted treeline Needlessly Large Rod is not purchasable so if you want to buy this item on Dominion you have to wait a long time with nothing to show for it. If you want to leave this item on Dominion and TT it really could use a new recipe. Maybe something like Blasting + Blasting + Ather Wisp + ( Old Combine - 120g)

Now as for the item itself. This item with it's stats should find it's way into peoples builds especially for non mana using champions. Only one item provides more %move speed than it (Zephyr being 10% move) which helps low move speed mages. 120 AP a huge chunk of ap. The passive provides a tinge of wave clear for the mages that desperately need some. In a vacuum this all sounds great however, combine them all and you run into some interesting best cases.

Ahri and Katarina come to my mind. Now take this with a grain of salt when I say I havn't played Luden's Echo Ahri. I can see how she can cause a problem her kit has a lot of spell casting and mobility. The added move speed + extra clear and damage + huge chunk of ap makes her uncatchable and highly damaging. Katarina I have played. She still suffers from her standard CC me and I'm doing nothing problems. Luden's Echo allows her Q to clear a wave basically by its self at a much lower ap. Adds some more burst to her ulti. Shunpo charges it 20 + distance moved. This item adds so much to her.

Though those two are obviously the front runners for best usage of Luden's what about others? It can play a role in any mid laners arsenal as a huge ap item but I don't feel it out shines other picks. I feel like people will still build torment and other items over this. The proc just doesn't seem to add much damage you need 667 ap just to make the proc deal 200 damage and the proc isn't up very often unless your a spam heavy caster that moves a lot.

I haven't played a ton of champions with it yet but for the experimental few of you out there I'd recommend trying it out on Rumble. He moves a lot, casts a ton, almost always has the proc up thanks to his combat style, and any tick of his flame spitter procs it. The move speed and huge ap benefit him greatly and the proc, while maybe not the hugest burst source, does add a bit of surprise to his damage. I feel in the long run this item would out damage Torment by quite a bit. If you don't need to hp pick it up and give it a try.

Another recommendation is AP Zac. He slingshot coupled with his chase and slow play style make him fall into a category like Rumble. He'll have the proc up a lot and will add a tinge of burst to his kit plus help him wave clear. I'd only recommend this if you're more experimental.

Some more champions that you may want to try Luden's on include Akali, Bard, Diana, Fizz, Kennen, and Sona.

Overall, I feel like Luden's is a great item. It doesn't fill Deathfire's burst role but does add a little burst and wave clear as well as being a huge ap and movement option. While some champions will use it to great effect, on some champions it might not even be built. We'll have to wait and see who uses it best out there in the fields of justice.

Things left to test: Veigars Q seeing if the Luden's proc adds AP from his Q Luden's kills from a Q proc

9 Comments

The Storm Dragon3/14/2015, 5:28:23 AM2 votes

I think it's dumb. And it's another example of AP bias. "We removed DFG because it was causing bursty champs to burst harder, and making non-assassin champs hit like assassins. So in it's place, we put an item that adds more burst to all champion's combos! Clearly there is no issue."

As far as AP bias, 1. It scales unlike Shiv, 2. It triggers off of ANY spell, not just single target, 3. It's damage type is the same as the kind it's boosting, so not only does it scale, but it also benefits from the penetration you'll be building anyway.

Thresh Outta Fux3/14/2015, 5:26:59 AM1 votes

Honestly, they should make the movespeed buff disappear if you use a non-summoner flash/dash, but that's just an idea.

trial13/14/2015, 7:31:04 AM1 votes

Just an opinion : An alternative choice if an ap player wants a triggered extra AOE damage rather simple ap boost. This and rabadon cost only 200 difference, buying both will require a lot of money and time.

AP champions might find Luden more AOE friendly, since not all of them have good ap ratio which make 30% ap increase from rabadon have noticeable effect. Simple math will be if you have 400 ap total with rabadon basic 120 ap, go rabaddon, you'll get another 120 ap thanks to rabadon passive. If not, go Luden since less than 100 ap ( where not all ap ratio is 100% ) < 100 damage + 15% ap. Although 1 time, it is enough to make up from 100ap ratio loss from QWER damage combo.

This item get along quite well with statik shiv due to its basic requirement : walk around. Most of the time, if the other unavailable, the other available, although gold is the problem. The combo might suitable to tank/fighter/marksman/assassin with ap ratio ( for Luden ) based champs only. Statik shiv feel weird on mages due to low attack speed and low attack damage.

I do wonder though if this item can activate liandry or rylai passive. ( adding DOT / slow ) Or other champ passive like Brand..... double the pain with liandry if possible.

Overall, a nice item and can become rabadon replacement if situation demand it. Need more time to see if a champ become OP with this item. ( mostly from assassins class with ap ratio )

insaiyanbacca3/14/2015, 7:34:46 AM1 votes

i actually love the item i just think it could use more clear vfx

Martyrofsand3/21/2015, 4:48:45 AM1 votes

Best champ in the game to use this item is Cassio. 20 stacks per cast on a champ that will be casting and moving 100% of the time. She will get more procs out of it than anyone and it just further increases her already insane constant damage.

OJ1913/21/2015, 4:51:12 AM1 votes

As an AP ez main, it doesn't need to proc on his Q, he already has good poke mid to late-game. Even if it did I would be hard pressed to buy it more than occasionally, you NEED tear/boots/lichbane/deathcap/void staff and then if you don't get zhonya's you are playing very risky, the movespeed can only do so much.