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Phreak is hitting all the points for how (specifically crit) ADCs can be fixed

TheSymbolÔfPeace·12/25/2018, 6:42:34 AM·24 votes·13,312 views

Main summary of video:

Make ADC offensive abilities scale with champion level (total attack damage ratios). Essentially, he states how champion abilities should be scaled off of total damage and how items (specifically zeal items) have attack damage. This would allow ADCs to have a progressive powercurve where, as an example he gives about Tristana, her E at level 9 is no different than her E at level 13 as that is the period where she would buy a Rapidfire Cannon. Now, there would be changes with the items as adding more damage would be added for the loss of attack speed/crit chance. This would lower the DPS of ADCs but allow them to be not only feel more balanced, but feel better to play.

He further explains how champions with total attack damage kits that also build items that have attack damage have smooth power curves (not going from completely useless to suddenly hypercarry status), an example being Lucian who feels as if gen has agency the entire game and doesn't stay irrelevant until he gets items under his belt.

Champions that are auto-attack based also feel the same gampeplay-wise. You sit there, click, and kill them. Ashe, Tristana, etc. are examples of this. For Ashe you W/R when it is up and AA the enemy to death. For Tristana you W away to AA the enemy to death as well as using R to create distance and time to AA. Champions like Kalista and Lucian feel better to play as they are more mechanically intrusive rather than the one two, buckle my shoe, three four, I'm auto attacking you to death.

Just wanted to talk about ideas for ADC changes, as I feel these propositions would be much better than the current situation of many ADCs.

59 Comments

Critmaster Garen12/25/2018, 8:22:37 AM15 votes

i think adc, and especially their attack steroids should be more modeled like Draven and modern melee carries.

this means they should have their main steroids linked to mechanics that they and their opponents can play around.

how do you play against draven? you make him drop his axes, then you beat him. draven on the other hand carries, when he repeatedly manages to catch his axes. in that way, draven is one of the only marksmen i can think of, who has a similar design to a lot of the more modern melee carries.

how do you win against most other adc? you either have the kit to fight them, THEN you can outstat them, or you dont. to beat an adc like Tristana either your champion is bullshit levels of Leblanc or if youre playing a slow melee champion, you probably will never get into range to fight her because her kit doesnt actually have counterplay and makes it impossible by design. you dont beat tristana by outplaying her. your only way to beat her is by outpicking her.

if you look at a lot of melee carries, be it Fiora Darius Aatrox and others, they usually have elements in their kits that their opponent can play around. a lot of ranged carries, especially marksmen, lack those elements.

for Fiora to access her max health % true damage, she has to outposition her opponent and repeatedly hit his vitals. her opponent can deny this by outpositioning fiora in return.

on the other hand, you have Vayne who gets the same mechanic tagged onto her auto attacks as an already ranged champion with higher target access and safety compared to fiora.

i think generally marksmen need modernization to be balancable as carries. they need more counterplay in their kits, instead of just getting 100% attack speed boosts and other crap that empowers their auto attacks, from passives or button presses.

their design should be updated similar to melee carries who have to fulfill specific conditions to be able to carry, that can be denied by outplaying them, or they deal shit for damage. (like a fiora who doesnt hit vitals, or an aatrox who never hits the enemy with the crit zones on his q)

LTK KoRo12/25/2018, 12:21:55 PM7 votes

Tristana Vayne Sivir Kaisa Jinx adcs like these deserve reworks, if all the counterplay to champion is "dont be in the attack range" then their gameplay design sucks balls.

ADC mains enjoy crying about assassins lacking counterplay, but they're the group which doesn't have any relevant counterplay.

Ahris12/25/2018, 6:08:28 PM5 votes

Phreak is a biased adc main, not sure if we should listen to him.

Hibeki12/25/2018, 4:57:33 PM5 votes

The problem with ADC is that theres way too much power in attack speed items and not enough in just damage itself.

Every single attack speed item double or triple dips in auto attack scaling power whereas AD just...has some utility.

ModCaptainMårvelous12/25/2018, 9:58:23 AM5 votes

I think one of the things he hits but doesn't expand upon is that ADC itemization and gameplay tends to be rather bland unless you're an on-hit/ability spammer.

Compare itemization:

Mages: Powerful actives (Twin Shadows, Zhonya's, the hextech line) or pretty unique/fun items that can change your playstyle/path (Lichbane, Rylais, Dark Seal/Mejais) Assassins: Again, strong actives (Ghostblade, Shroud) coupled with items that change your style or enhance it (Duskblade, Maw) Supports: lol their itemization is bonkers. Bruisers/Tanks: Bit of overlap here in terms of things they build but while they have probably the least on this list, there are still some fun items to use (Steraks, IBG, Tiamat line) and some passives that offer some unique things.

Now what do ADCs have? Basically just...stronger autos. There are some who avoid this (namely Lucian/Ezreal/on-hit champs in general) but those aren't THAT much different. The zeal line is the closest thing you get to uniqueness in your adc kit and what does it give you? Just some bonus on your next auto.

As another comparison, DOTA has characters who just slap you about with auto-attacks. However, that game has a ton of things to make this more skill-intensive or fun. Manta-style/helm of domination for multiple clones/minion control. Black King Bar for magic defense/popping things to break magic attacks/cc. Items like Orchid or Shadowblade that couple a powerful active with an auto-increasing item.

I don't think the crit itemization changes are going to work other than sate ADC players for a bit. Overall you're still going to encounter similar problems in them being just strong on autos. Riot should really look into giving them more to do, be it via items or effects that can even minutely change how you play.

BestPudgeNA12/25/2018, 7:37:46 PM4 votes

He kinda right on his main point but his specifics are way off.

Too much power budget into ranged autos isn't "restricted" to Crit ADCs, it's true of the whole class other then Ezreal and maybe Ashe/Lucian. Kog W for example doesn't have any interesting gameplay based around it. You can't dodge Kog autos and you can't really play around the cooldown outside of lane phase because the CD is so short, even then the "outplay" is to get him to press W then stand out of range till it's down so he waste mana.

Because so much of an ADC power budget is in Ranged autos it creates 2 problems for not just ADC but everyone involved in the game.

1)Scaling ADCs have to start out weak because they become stupid OP late 2)The only "counterplay" to them is to kill them first. So either ADC is unhappy because they "die really easy" or everyone else is unhappy because they're "unkillable ardent users"

ADCs need to become something between AD Mages and what they are now if Riot ever wants a meta where marksman and other carries are happy with the state of the game at the same time. This would mean giving the entire role the Kalista Passive treatment where ever ADC doesn't receive full value for AD and AS on their autos, but at the same time they gain utility and damage elsewhere in their kit. There also needs to be counterplay to the extra power, examples damage being shoved into Sivr/Cait dodgeable Qs and removed from autos.

For reference this is basically how "marksman" are in other moba games. Much more like Jayce/Corki/Teemo and other "non-ADC" marksman are in League currently.

GhaelWinds12/25/2018, 9:38:21 PM2 votes

If they make adcs scale off of level all the sudden we now have adcs mid/top since those areas yield more xp. Adcs dont exactly need the safety of a support if the reward is a lot more scaling from levels.