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I'd like an explanation.

WickedCrow·10/13/2015, 1:04:05 AM·5 votes·1,533 views
http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--RThAR0FK--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/1442025711740311950.jpg

I hope this is the correct board for this, though this rant will dip between the actual character and their concept/lore.

To start off with, I'll admit that from a lore perspective, Kindred is an amazing concept especially for League Of Legends. A new spin on the classic Grim Reaper, tied with all sorts of mystical and magical legends of the two components of Kindred, Wolf and Lamb. The whole duality concept is amazing and fresh. However, The hype has washed out of my eyes, and I am seeing Kindred in the real light. I am gravely disappointed in the character design for Kindred. This is going to be a long rant, so I'll break it down into sections.

-Design Lamb- Starting off, there was a post earlier on the boards relating to this, but long story short, Lamb doesn't move correctly. I can understand taking artistic liberties for a magical, ethereal character, but why does her fast run cycle have her galloping like a real lamb/sheep, while her walking speed is more or less human with an animal spin. This is a very messy way to do things. In one walk cycle you have established her as a non-satyr character with human movements that would break a creature with those kinds of legs, then you try to shoehorn in an odd gallop reminiscent of a real lamb. It is just confusing and ugly all in one motion. Wolf- As for wolf, you guys really outdid yourselves with this. To be honest, I think your art team is starting to surpass your model design team with new champions. I can understand his size being scaled down for game purposes, that I have no issue with. However, I feel like your art team more or less ad-libed Wolf's design to your model designers. In his art, Wolf is a giant dark shadow with a menacing appearance, but in game, he's just a wolf camp monster without a body and a "lamb" mask stapled on. He's even got the real teeth of a physical wolf, and I don't think his gaping mouth has the glow like the art. It looks goofy all mashed together. It's another case of trying to mash a magical element with something else and it not working, You guys didn't even manage to get the mask right! The whole ying/yang mask thing you guys were pushing in all the teasers, and you STILL managed to miss the lamb ears on the real model. THAT is lazy, THAT is disappointing. You may as well refer to that wolf as bootleg to the art model. Overall, the duality theme is fresh within the characters voice acting. It is amazing to listen to and see the characters breath there lore into the game, but it makes their models and gameplay feel sub par.

-Gameplay If the design of these two was not already messy enough, then "their" gameplay is probably far worse. To start off with, you technically only control Lamb. Understandable since this is the first champion Riot has tried to make work like two characters at once. Except they managed to do everything wrong yet again. From a gameplay perspective, You are not even playing Kindred, you are playing Lamb with a pet. Suffice to say, as disappointing as it is, calling Kindred Her is not even wrong in this sense, because this is not a pair, it's a champion with a pet, not much different than malzahar or Sejuani. I suppose I am being very vague, but let's break it down: Passive: This is one of the few parts of the kit that even match the tone of Kindred. The whole idea of a roaming hunter/marksman where hunting is more or less their duty and the player is rewarded for fulfilling it. While it technically does not actively involve Wolf, it does have a component for him, even though Lamb is the one who will likely end up killing the monster. It's nice that the Player gets to pick a champion, while Wolf gets to pick the monster camp. Q: More or less makes sense. After all, Lamb is supposed to be a skilled hunter. No real qualms with this skill. **W: **Where it really gets bad. 3rd skill in and the first one to actively used Wolf. Problem is, it is interesting in terms of gameplay, but this skill MASSIVELY impacts the lore. You have set Lamb and Wolf together as equals, but here is a skill where Lamb, the player, is commanding Wolf to a spot with a range. And should Lamb move out of that range, Wolf is forced to return to here. Congratz, you just gave one half of this "duo" power over the other. You may as well have given Lamb a literal leash. This is also the ONLY skill where Wolf is the major component and he does not even get full control, he's just used as a turret. Pretty sad from a design standpoint. E: As tired as I am with 3-hit effects, it makes sense for an ADC I suppose. But just like the W, Lamb is the major component, activating the spell, doing the two hits with wolf coming in for the super special final hit, wooooo. Again, does not even feel like Wolf is there at this point, he isn't even needed for this this spell. R: Now I know you are just messing with us at this point. You guys spent SOOOO much time with the lore, and teasers, and story building up this Grim Reaper fairytale and the duality, only to give us a rehash of Bard's ult. It make no sense whatsoever being on champions who are themed with death and only Lamb can use it. I could understand self heals, but why on earth would the Grim Reaper have the ability to negate its targets death AND heal it. Yes, it makes sense from a game balance perspective, but you are tacking on yet another ability which does not relate to Kindred's concept, let alone the fact that, surprise, Lamb is the only component in this ability too! Amazing.

So let us tally this up: **Lamb: ** -Is a skilled hunter -Athletic, as shown by her ability to flip and turn with her Q -Has some magical component relating to life and death, yet does not fully tie in with the lore -Has control over Wolf, at least in terms of gameplay -Is controlled by the player -4 of the 5 skills have her as the major component, and in the 5th skill she is still commanding Wolf to do it

Wolf: -Barks at stuff -Bites stuff -Sits in an area, biting stuff -Exists, but does nothing 85% of the time. -1 of the 5 skills he is the main component, and he's still bound by Lamb's position and rules.

At this point, you may as well just retcon the lore to having Lamb be the main champion with wolf as a sidekick/pet character, since that's what you made the gameplay after. This is pretty sad when you compare it to Tahm Kench or Ekko. Those champions fit amazingly with their lore. It felt like they came straight from it! But Kindred? It feels like you just bootlegged the story into the game. If you could explain why you guys designed this champion so poorly in-game, perhaps I could see a reason to even enjoy these characters again. Either fix it so Wolf plays a more engaging, active role, or fix the lore to match the champion. After all, at the end of the day, we are playing the game, not writing fanfics. You guys probably have time to, sense I am guessing a major bug in this champion pushed it back to 5.20

11 Comments

lofi n chillhop10/13/2015, 1:35:44 AM5 votes

when I first heard of kindred, I was super excited. when I saw her kit, I was like there is no kindred, this is just lamb. and I was a little creeped out by the "wolf male lamb female" role, but IDK that could be too feminist? I just felt uncomfortable with the whole "male hunter female prey bound for all eternity" theme that's a little creepy. they could have easily been the same gender, or designed so that they are not so clear their gender like bard is, and also I mean seriously it's just wolf following lamb around everywhere doing nothing anyway....

Little Stick Man10/13/2015, 1:40:48 AM4 votes

well your first problem is taking lore into account bc rito gives literally no shits about lore

ZT Xperimentor10/13/2015, 1:41:17 AM4 votes

I agree they didn't make a successful duo-character champion, kind of sad really; they should stop making new champions and fix the ones they've already screwed up.

Kolrog10/13/2015, 3:35:24 AM2 votes

Bump because this needs more attention, im on the same page as op here. Really got me hyped for a new "potential" adc but highly disapointed by the whole character concept. This is Yorick all over again.....

Sehlikah10/13/2015, 4:07:34 AM1 votes

Visuals are a very subjective matter, and I won't touch on them (lacking the experience to say what is quality and what is not, but simply relying on like/dislike).

As to Gameplay/Lore, I would propose that you misunderstand Kindred.

The best summation of Kindred come from their own VO - "And everywhere Lamb went Wolf was sure to follow." They are two halves forming a whole, but one half is most certainly in charge. In their lore/stories, Lamb commands Wolf and orders when and where to strike.

This is because Lamb is the intellect of Kindred and Wolf is the emotion. The intellect is guided and molded by the emotion, but it is ultimately the intellect that is in control. Wolf's role in the abilities of Kindred reflects this. In the W, he is unleashed and in the E, his ferocity forms the final strike but all this is at Lamb's command.

In A Good Death, Kindred (or at least Lamb) saves Magga from the bandits. Why? It is uncertain. Is the ultimate misplaced on a Grim Reaper? Yes, most certainly. However, Kindred is not the Grim Reaper who seeks to harvest every soul (though Wolf loves the chase). Simply, all things must meet Kindred. Kindred is death unique to Runeterra, and the ultimate suits Kindred.

MisterHealYoGirl10/13/2015, 5:28:21 AM1 votes

I disagree with you on a few points. Although they're both a part of the same personality, Lamb definitely exerts control over Wolf; if you look at their dialogue, Wolf is constantly asking Lamb for permission to do things; "Tell me again, Lamb", "Go, Wolf!". It might help to think of the two as the brains and the brawn: the analytical Lamb directs the savage Wolf.

The way that I think about Lamb taking the lead role in the game is that we're seeing how they act IN THE LEAGUE OF LEGENDS. All of these champions are there with the knowledge that they will die and be killed repeatedly; with this in mind, they're all essentially chosen death by Lamb (since they accept their deaths). Although Wolf still governs when they try to resist (hence his presence), the attitude of the champions probably leans towards Lamb being dominant.

We're also seeing how they act when commanded by a summoner (which I think is still a part of the lore). Wolf is a wild entity, one that only Lamb can control. Since the two are inextricable, we need to go through Lamb to communicate with Kindred as a whole.

Anyway, that's why I think that Lamb comes off as more dominant than Wolf. Just my tired musings.

darapier1710/13/2015, 12:17:30 PM1 votes

i agree. Kindred does not get to be 'kindred' with anything. They are not even kindred with itself. Even listening to the voices, lamb is the one telling wolf things, while wolf really feels like a pet.