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Anyone else worried by the fact that Greivous Wounds is being almost completely removed?

xDeagle·1/26/2015, 10:38:31 PM·4 votes·1,276 views

As a player that has been playing League of Legends since early season 2, I can safely say that I've seen a lot of weird balance issues that are not only related to specific champions being too strong - but mechanics themselves, and the way they work. Remember that every item removal, every ability that turns from a point and click nobrain stun to a skillshot CC, every item change can easily break the balance of certain champions and bring them into an unhealthy state in which they're simply too strong or too good.

So why do I think that the fact that healing reduction options are becoming more and more limited will turn into a huge balance problem? Let me explain:

With the removal of items such as Executioner's Calling and the removal / changes of abilities that apply healing reduction (such as the upcoming nerf to Fizz and the change to Tristana's E), dealing with lifestealing AD carries will become such a huge pain in the ass. Personally it worries me a lot because at the moment, lifesteal is EXTREMELY cheap and easy to accquire, yet its so difficult to counter it or reduce its effectiveness by smart itemization or strategic choices.

Let's not forget champions such as Swain, Dr. Mundo, Vladimir, etc. that Greivous Wounds abilities and items help you to counter. While it does not completely stop them from healing, it does reduce their sustain potential by a healthy amount which enables certain champions to duel them.

Right now, if you did not pick a champion that has the Greivous Wounds mechanic within his kit (think Varus, Miss Fortune, Katarina, etc.) you'll have a pretty damn hard time dealing with a Swain who has a very strong heal in his kit that allows him to oblitirate opponents while healing himself so much, or a Fiora who builds almost full AD and some lifesteal which causes her to regenerate so much health simply by auto attacking - and that makes them almost impossible to play against.

The only counters healing has so far that DON'T require you to pick a specific champion are Ignite (which is a commonly used Summoner Spell) and a Morellonomicon, which is only viable on AP champions.

So in the new 5th season, how the hell are we supposed to itemizie against team compositions that either include heavy healing based champions (I gave examples above) or an annoying ass Kalista or Lucian that become surprisingly difficult to kill due to how easy lifesteal is to accquire?

P.S. don't be a smartass and say "b-but counters are bad because they nulify your strenghs and the items you chose to buy..!"

What about armor and magic penetration items? Although I DO belive that penetration items are currently unbalanced to some degree, remember that they DIRECTLY reduce the effectiveness of those expensive armor items that you've bought - but they don't make your defensive stats completely and entirely useless - THEY JUST REDUCE THEIR STRENGH THROUGH A STRATEGIC GOLD INVESTMENT THAT A PLAYER IS ALLOWED (BUT NOT ENTIRELY FORCED) TO CHOOSE.

tl:dr With the removal of healing reduction items and abilities (also known as "Greivous Wounds", that reduce any healing or regeneration by 50% if I remember correctly), being able to counter heavy AD champions that purchase lifesteal or champions that have in-built heals within their kits themselves is now more difficult than ever, which will probably lead to a massive balance issue in the upcoming months. I suggest to make healing reduction items slightly less limited and more accessable, but also make them a situational purchase so they don't become too overbearing to face when playing champions that rely on healing, which I gave examples of above.

Discuss, friends! And don't forget to share your thoughts and ideas. :)

item 3165 summoner 14

8 Comments

TehNACHO1/27/2015, 12:38:23 AM6 votes

Here's what I remember being described about the state of Grievous Wounds way back in the old forums:

The biggest problem about Grievous Wounds is that it essentially boils down into incredibly binary scenarios. For example, Grievous Wounds items. What happens when the item is highly tuned stats per cost item 3165? Everyone buys it, all healers now need to be overtuned to compensate, all this ends up with is ridiculously stupid healing potential Swain and the expectation that you're buying Morellonomicon anyway.

If, for example, Grievous Wounds are either completely removed or reserved for much more niche/impactful situations (summoner 14), then it's fair game imo. Otherwise, too easy access to Grievous Wounds means that, from a game balance standpoint, healers need a little extra to compensate. To rephrase, poor implementation of Grievous Wounds threatens the balance of the game (at least in regards to healers vs anything else).

I don't think Grievous Wounds is going to be completely removed, but I do expect to see a lot of today's implementations of Grievous Wounds either get flushed out or reworked. The concept weighs down on balance by making things binary - think of why so many people get annoyed at Yasuo - even if the concept itself isn't inherently broken. The removal of Grievous Wounds however can eventually lead to better normalization of Health Tanks (Dr. Mundo and Volibear's healing factors no longer have to be so extreme, for example) and way better power distribution to places where it actually matters, but you can't implement without risking making the healing champions OP.

JustMyBassCannon1/26/2015, 11:06:30 PM3 votes

I'm not going to worry about GW being removed until they remove it from Varus and Morellonomicon.

If that happens, then I expect that Riot's going to work on rebalancing Lifesteal (and possibly removing/replacing Spell Vamp).

Teridax681/27/2015, 7:30:02 AM2 votes

I'd say the most dangerous champions are those who combine overbearing sustain with tankiness, such as DrMundo and Swain . Lifesteal on marksmen is definitely a delicate issue, but no matter how much sustain a marksman gets, at least you can burst them down. Champions like Mundo and Swain are resistant to both burst and DPS, which means that if they get past a certain threshold it's impossible to deal with them unless you have Grievous Wounds. Their sustain is improperly gated, and I think the best state for League would be to balance every instance of sustain and healing to never become overwhelming, but also to remove GW from the game entirely. GW is there to curb overly strong healing, but in most cases that healing is only overly strong because Grievous Wounds exists and is capable of cutting it in half.

SlytherinUmbreon1/26/2015, 10:50:41 PM1 votes

Tbh, the changes will probably have almost no effect. Executioners was removed because almost no one built it unless it's stats were high enough to be broken, so it's not like removing it changes anything. Fizz and Trist still fall under the "only specific champions have Grievous Wounds" and they honestly never get randomly thrown into a comp for that. Greivious Wounds has never really been powerful enough to justify picking a specific champion or Grabbing a specific item over another just to get GW. Unless the enemy team has some crazy mass heal comp like Vlad/Warwick/Swain/ADC/Soraka, Greivious wounds isn't something anyone specifically wants, not even to counter their lane opponent. Before Chalice was nerfed to near worthlessness, Morello only ever got picked on certain champions for economic value or just because they didn't need the mana from Athenes.

Raptamei1/27/2015, 7:36:18 AM1 votes

Soraka good

CalciferHowel1/27/2015, 8:03:49 AM1 votes

I feel like GW has to be linked to a relatively long active, otherwise it becomes to oppressive. summoner 14 Being a good example of this. If an item were made that's active did nothing but apply grievous wounds, and still had some nice stats, I see no issue with it personally.

GW as a passive effect though is dangerous and results in a lot of overtuning.