Boards›Gameplay

The Root of it All - a Fundamental Error in Game Design - Ranged vs Melee ADC

OryxWild·1/13/2015, 6:17:46 PM·1 votes·935 views

TL;DR - Marksmen should not be highest damage class when they are at range; implement a sliding scale ranged damage nerf on AA's (ie, 750 range = 50% damage, 350 range = 75% damage, 100 range = 100% damage, or something like that). This would balance marksman carries vs melee carries and make both more viable.

At this point it feels to me (and I see these sentiments echoed by many others) that ADC's get the complete late game fantasy package - lane bullying through ranged harass, high damage, good mobility (on nearly all of the meta ADC's), long range, and strong tankiness through lifesteal. In a meta where tanks get melted in less than 4 sec, an adc that can hit for 1.5k and drain for 500 in one second is getting a lot of free hp for their extremely safe, extremely high damage.

Although this game design may have made sense in the past, I feel that giving ranged characters the highest damage potential is overall a mistake. Of course, it's hard to change since most of their damage is actually coming from items rather than kit, and theoretically most characters can make it to high DPS. Of course, most characters can't survive long enough to use it.

I would like to bring your attention to Yi; He's a very well designed ADC from my perspective. He has a moderate early game, a decent mid game, and a very strong late game. He does melt people in seconds and drain tanks reasonably well, and he also has strong mobility/damage negation tools if played well. Nevertheless, there are many windows of opportunity for counterplay; because he needs to get close to deal his massive damage, he is very vulnerable to CC and being melted in turn.

The current "protect the ranged carries" meta encourages very low interaction fights; 1 team can't win the fight unless it is able to get to the past the front line and to the marksman. The marksman is rewarded for making sure that the enemy never has a chance to attack him. In a perfect scenario, where the marksman and his team do a great job of keeping him out of range of the enemy, it's a very depressing fight for the losers. Hence the rise of mobility as king - if you can't get to the glass cannon, then none of your other stats or abilities matter anyway as you are quickly melted.

In my ideal league of legends, marksmen are moderate dps with decent escapes who transition into very strong dps at close range. Kiting should be rewarding and leave room for the enemy to outplay you. In this way the marksman is rewarded the most for kiting at very close ranges, while the enemy is given his window of opportunity to CC and melt the marksman. Additionally, melee carries become more viable because they deal the same amount of damage they've always dealt.

One way of changing this would be to implement a scaling ranged damage reduction on AA's, so that marksmen can still do moderate damage from range but have to get in close to really melt faces. It opens up a whole new realm of strategy; As a marksman, you can outdamage the enemy marksman simply by being more ballsy than he. Alternatively, a very safe marksman can still be basically untouchable and continue moderate dps for longer, kite-backwards engagements. This also boosts viability of tanks without making them unkillable.

What do you think? Is this an issue? Am I seeing it clearly? What is your solution?

5 Comments

Aurelius Maximus1/13/2015, 6:55:35 PM2 votes

adc's don't have the highest damage in the game.

They have the lowest burst damage (Among people who do damage) Most mages obviously beat them there

They have the second highest sustained damage. Melee carries have higher sustained damage. IF you think yi yasuo trynd fiora and riven do less dmg than adcs idk what to tell you.

Teamfights are more complicated than that and you are underselling the meta. I think you don't have as good of an understanding of the game. as you think you have.

SmokingPuffin1/13/2015, 7:18:10 PM2 votes

This would balance marksman carries vs melee carries and make both more viable.

Marksmen have nothing to do with the reasons melee carries are not viable. You could delete all marksmen and melee carries would still suck. Actually they'd get worse, because marksmen are the primary solution to bruisers and bruisers wreck melee carries.

At this point it feels to me (and I see these sentiments echoed by many others) that ADC's get the complete late game fantasy package - lane bullying through ranged harass, high damage, good mobility (on nearly all of the meta ADC's), long range, and strong tankiness through lifesteal.

There's a lot of good champion capabilities not on that list. CC, initiation, burst damage, peel, pick potential.

Also, lifesteal is not tankiness. You have to be able to attack a target for lifesteal to do anything.

Although this game design may have made sense in the past, I feel that giving ranged characters the highest damage potential is overall a mistake.

Ranged characters do not have the highest potential damage. Depending on how you view things, highest potential damage is Nasus, Katarina, Master Yi, Fiora, or Zed.

I would like to bring your attention to Yi; He's a very well designed ADC from my perspective. He has a moderate early game, a decent mid game, and a very strong late game.

Master Yi is absolutely useless in games featuring competent players. He cannot be a source of sustained damage; his teamfight role is much closer to Katarina than Tristana.

In my ideal league of legends, marksmen are moderate dps with decent escapes who transition into very strong dps at close range. Kiting should be rewarding and leave room for the enemy to outplay you.

Are you really sure that you want marksmen to be like Vayne? Pretty sure Vayne causes endless frustration in many players.

What do you think? Is this an issue? Am I seeing it clearly? What is your solution?

I don't think a fundamental rework of how marksmen apply damage is a good idea; I think you will simply get a new set of problems, and not a healthier game.

To the extent that there is an issue, it's that some of the older champion designs don't fit into modern League. Champions like Olaf simply don't make sense in a game where most targets have a dash.

xLegendary Troll1/13/2015, 6:51:08 PM1 votes

The price they pay for a weak early game compensates for a strong late game. Does Tryndamere or Yasuo have a weak early game? Hell, yasuo was nerfed because his level 2 was obnoxiously over powered.

Edit: my solution is to bring back the old Randuins passive. That nerf single handedly gave them the edge they needed to dominate.

Captain Aishi1/13/2015, 7:21:59 PM1 votes

actually they should make ranged characters unable to autoattack from melee range, just like melee characters are unable to attack at range